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Topic: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

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  1. #11

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    I always hesitate to do this when the final results are so dependent upon mixing decisions, not just the track data. When the MIDI data is imported to another sequencer or notation program it will not resemble the final mix, as posted. But I will do it anyway (in the next few days) with a caution to anyone using the MIDI data file that only a part of the necessary information is present.

    Tom

  2. #12

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Here's the MIDI data file for the Gary Lindsay big band demo: http://www.garritan.com/JABB/Lindsay...GLindsay1a.mid

    Please read the cautionary message of my previous post.

    Tom

  3. #13

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Tom
    Wanted to say thanks for spending the time to deconstruct your process. Interesting that I never thought about your using a reference recording for this. But having read the whole article I think this makes sense if that is where one starts. Probably a great JABB exercise is to take a published/recorded piece and do the same. I may try that approach now that i have read your account.
    Interesting that you did the same thing on drums that I started doing on my 3rd project (slow learner) which is, because as a pianist and saxophonist I need to break the drums into at least four sections and actually started doing this by setting up a template where I have the brush kit and stix all broken out into separate tracks. Great for ballads etc, where you want to switch back and forth.
    I TOTALLY agree with your comment about knowledge about HOW this music is played live and that it makes a world of difference if you can spend time on the band stand and, failing that, listening to recordings with attention to the details and nuances.

    I am struck by the fact that my knowledge of controllers and (ahem) control of controllers is the weakest link for me at the moment. Still working at that and I intuit that this is a very important part of JABB as you say. I say intuit because at the moment I seem to be skipping over the controller stuff (except mod wheel, sustain pedal and a little after touch massaging) and therefore I can only guess at where some increase in controller expertise will lead.

    Mmmmmmm, I started this off just wanting to say thanks for the helpful message and seem to have a similar affliction on the side of verbosity. JABB is fun to think and talk about as well as use.

    Paul
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  4. #14

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Hi Keith

    I am a saxophonist and pianist, but thought I'd chime in anyway. I played drums a bit when I was a kid but that only has midly helped my abilities to render a half decent drum part. I recommend a couple of good resources:
    Steve Houghton has a good basic book on Studio and Big Band Drumming (you'll have to google these as they aren't immediately in sight here at the moment) that covers important concepts about basic patterns, supporting and setting up band figures (setups are REALLY important). It comes with a CD I think and annotated drum parts for straight ahead mainstream well known published charts.

    Another great one (or two) are John Riley's books. One is called BeBop Drumming I think and the other title I can't recall at the moment. Someone else will likely chime in on this.

    John and Steve are both fabulous small group and big band drummers so their books are well worth a look.

    Finally, Kendor publishes a classic book called About Time (hope I have this right) by the late Mel Lewis. This is a MUST READ!

    Hope that helps...from one non-drummer to another.

    Paul

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithW
    Tom (and drummers out there) Your bullet 4 is interesting regarding the rhythm section. This brings up a question for you drummers out there. If there is no "reference track" (which there is in the case with the CD that comes with the Gary Lindsay book,) and you're inputting a standard jazz chart with minimal (or no) drum notation, how do you score a "reasonable"sounding drum part? Are there tools out there to help you do this? I quite understand minimalism is the goal when charting for live performance but you need a decent drum track for somewhat realistic overall performance Thanks. Keith Walls
    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  5. #15

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    any chance to hear an mp3 Tom for us non Sonar...awesome stuff....bravo

  6. #16

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Quote Originally Posted by voxosoxo
    any chance to hear an mp3 Tom for us non Sonar...awesome stuff....bravo
    An mp3 of my re-working of Paul's chart has been up for months in the Listening Room stickies (at the top of the Listening Room.) Here's a link to the Mr. G thread:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=43151

    All other mp3 mixes corresponding to the various Sonar demo files are posted in other Listening Room stickies as well. See these links:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=44314
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=42498

    Tom

    P.S. Thanks!

  7. #17

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    A bit late to the game, but I just read this thread and have a question. Simply, when entering sustain pedal in Sonar (or any controller that is either off or on, o or 127), is there a simple way to do so? I'm getting ready to work on my first rendering with JABB instruments in Sonar and I wasn't looking foward to trying to enter sustain by hand in the piano roll window. Or, is that how you did it - clicking at the very top or bottom of the roll?

    Thanks,

  8. #18

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Rob,

    I entered (or modified) all controller data manually in the piano roll view. It actually goes fairly quickly once you get a flow going - and that just takes practice. Entering controller data by hand is certainly not my idea of a good time but it is the best way to do extremely detailed and accurate work. Patience in the service of the knowledgeable application of data is definitely a virtue in the world of sample editing.

    Tom

  9. #19

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Tom, the demo sounds like a real big band! I have a few questions! You played each part into Sonar in real time. Did you have to tweak the timing note by note at places in the arrangement,track by track after playing them in or did you adjust the notes section by section? In other words, did you edit notes in the piano roll editor with several tracks showing at a time? It seems very tedious and time consuming to edit the notes track by track. Secondly, when you go back to add controllers such as sustain and slurs, are these added by drawing them in Sonar or are they added in real time as the track plays?

  10. #20

    Re: Tom's Sonar5 file for the first JABB big band demo

    Hi Tom,

    great work on the demo as I've said before it sounds like a real big band!
    I have a offer! I use Cubase SX 3 quite a bit and I took your Sonar 5 demo's midi tracks and imported them to Cubase SX 3 using JABB Kontakt 2 Player. Is it possible to upload this Cubase project to this forum so Cubase users can check out your work?

    Thanks again

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