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Topic: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

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  1. #1

    Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Can anyone help me with how to apply vibrato to the JaBB Saxes.

    I am looking to be able to apply the vibrato to some notes and not others and to be able to control the vibrato effect.

    I'm also looking to be able to apply this in both Sonar and Finale if possible so if anyone can give me detailed instructions for either or both I'd be very grateful.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk View Post
    Can anyone help me with how to apply vibrato to the JaBB Saxes.

    I am looking to be able to apply the vibrato to some notes and not others and to be able to control the vibrato effect.

    I'm also looking to be able to apply this in both Sonar and Finale if possible so if anyone can give me detailed instructions for either or both I'd be very grateful.

    Thanks.
    After Touch! Generally, that's the vibrato control in Garritan. The trumpets in GPO, your saxes in JABB. Gotta use it!

    If you're using a keyboard that doesn't generate AfterTouch, no problem - I think you use Sonar - In the Piano Roll View, ask to have an AT pane inserted, and you can draw it in. I think it's called ChnAft in Sonar (Channel After Touch)--I'm flying through fast, no time to double check - but you'll find it.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Hi Michael,

    Randy is right. In the PRV (piano roll) in the controller drop down menu you have the choice of ChanAft. That selected you can then draw in after touch with the pencil. The higher you go with the shape the more depth to the vibrato (I think I am remembering that correctly). There is one other adjustment you need to make as well. CC#17 controls the vibrato speed from slow to fast as you increase the heighth of lines drawn. You need to play with it a little to find a pleasing combination of depth and speed. Generally vibrato is more pronounced on longer notes and virtually absent on faster notes. I might add that when you get the vibrato on some notes the way you like it to sound, you can copy and paste it to other notes but be mindful that variation in vibrato on a giving players instrument is normal and expected. If each note had the same effect it would sound robotic.

    In Finale, you would have to use the Midi Tool (and ChanAft plus CC#17) and for me that is a real pain. I never did get it to work well in Finale. It is not at all intuitive. Maybe someone else has and can give us both insight on how to accomplish it!

    Good luck, I can't wait to hear what you accomplish with your sax vibrato!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4
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    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    If your Finale score is set up and you have music in the staves for the saxes try this.

    Under the Window menu open the Score Manager.

    In the Score Manager window under Device change what is there (probably Garritan Instruments for Finale) to Garritan ARiA Player.

    In the same window under Sound choose Edit Player. This opens the ARIA Player

    Check the channel column in the score manager and load the JABB sound into the ARIA Player from the menus that appear.

    Click the Controls button on the right side of the ARIA window. Note the controls that are available and experiment with them until you find the sounds you want. I jot down the CC numbers and the numbers below the control knob that represent the amount of that control I want to use. You can get back to the ARIA window at any time through the score manager or just leave it open while you are working on that sax part.

    In your Finale score with Finale's MIDI tool selected, select a range of measures in your sax part that contains one or more of the notes to which you wish to apply vibrato.

    Double click on the first measure of the selected measures. This opens the MIDI Tool window.

    In the space above the sax staff in the MIDI Tool window drag the mouse to select the note or notes that will get vibrato.

    In the MIDI tool select Continuous Data and in the small Continuous Data window that comes up choose the controller you want to modify.

    Under the MIDI menu choose Set To... and type in the value you want to apply. You will have to repeat this for all of the controllers that are to be modified.

    Under the MIDI tool get Play and listen to see if Finale plays the notes back correctly. Make changes if not OK.

    Close the MIDI Tool window and try playing the passage from the normal playback controls.

    I wish the MIDI Tool had a button that would open the ARIA player for the sound you are working on, allow you to modify controls as you saw fit, and then allow you to click a button that says "use ARIA settings", and automatically incorporates your choices for any and all controllers to the region of music that you selected.

    Good Luck

    Norman








    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_uk View Post
    Can anyone help me with how to apply vibrato to the JaBB Saxes.

    I am looking to be able to apply the vibrato to some notes and not others and to be able to control the vibrato effect.

    I'm also looking to be able to apply this in both Sonar and Finale if possible so if anyone can give me detailed instructions for either or both I'd be very grateful.

    Thanks.

  5. #5

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by jandjnelson View Post
    ...In the space above the sax staff in the MIDI Tool window drag the mouse to select the note or notes that will get vibrato...Under the MIDI menu choose Set To... and type in the value you want to apply...
    Thanks for the Finale info, Norman. Quite a process!

    Michael, since you use Sonar, I highly recommend you do this kind of work there, because from what Norman's described, it sounds like your vibrato will just be turned off and on in Finale. Actually playing the vibrato with a keyboard is best, but Rich has described how to draw it in the PRV, and that works too. Either way, you can apply a realistic vibrato, saving it just for longer notes, and only after the pitch has been established, not from the onset of a note.

    And Rich's other note is critical also - to vary the vibrato speed with CC17. You'll hear how musicians often change the speed of their vibrato, either speeding up or slowing down over the course of a note. You can emulate that with CC17.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    I did a quick tutorial on how to use many of these controls complete with Pictures and MIDI, etc.

    The forum post is here.

  7. #7

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsnyderii View Post
    I did a quick tutorial on how to use many of these controls complete with Pictures and MIDI, etc.

    The forum post is here.
    That's really great, Norman - Now That's what I'm talking about. Your screenshots show it all, how to work with MIDI organically in DAW software. That's the first time I saw that thread - It was posted during a time I wasn't around so much. I appreciate you getting back up here for us!

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Did you mean Norman or Jim? Jim Snyder posted the Sax project (that is me ).

  9. #9

    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by jdsnyderii View Post
    Did you mean Norman or Jim? Jim Snyder posted the Sax project (that is me ).
    Ack! I just Gotta slow down - Sorry, Jim, I knew it was you who wrote the sax tutorial, I just still had Norman's post in my head as I looked at the page and let my fingers fly on these keys - Thinking one thing, typing another- AAaaargh!

    Randy

  10. #10
    Senior Member fastlane's Avatar
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    Re: Vibrato On Saxes - Sonar Or Finale Or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    After Touch! Generally, that's the vibrato control in Garritan. The trumpets in GPO, your saxes in JABB. Gotta use it!
    Randy
    Randy,

    Can you tell me a few instruments in GPO or JABB(Kontakt 5) that do use aftertouch for vibrato or anything. I can't seem to find any and I remember there wrier some.

    My Axion is sending CC25 with aftertouch. It was effecting the low pass filter in GIO which is also CC25 but I was able to turn it off in the MIDI chain to that specific Aria instance in my DAW. I don't get any vibrato or other effects with aftertouch in the stand-a-lone Aria or Kontakt player either.




    Phil

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