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Topic: About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

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  1. #1

    About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

    I am studying the book On the Track that deals with how to score for film. After reading the 2 chapters on Timings and Clicks, that deals with calculating the metronome speed and timings, I am wondering if I need to do this when working in Logic. If I have a film in Logic, I can set the hit points and cue start and endings very precisely and Logic takes care of the syncing of movie and music. With this happening, do I still need to master the confusing art of clicks?


    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2

    Re: About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

    Hi Andre,

    I ve read that book - a long time ago now. I thought it was very good at the time but nowdays the concept is a little outdated. I think the short answer is no although others may disagree - as you say Logic basically does it all for you now even finding the scene edits for you and finding hit points.
    As a conductor the concepts of timings and clicks is very important to my own composing of ques within a film score so I think very much in terms of clicks/tempo/phrasing as this gives me a feel for what a "real musician" would play to. So the long answer to your question is yes - especially if you are recording with a live orchestra or overdubing solo musicians or moving your session to another studio etc
    A technique I use often if I have a guide dialogue track is to use the beat mapping function (usually uesd to tighten music tracks and samples) in the global track bar to select what beats and bars hit the transients in the dialogue then let Logic workout the tempo from scene to scene. It also alows you to denote where and how the tempo can change with in a scene if required. This used to be done with a stop watch and endless tables of tempos and time signatures.
    Thats my 2cents. Have fun scoring for film.
    Gerard

  3. #3

    Re: About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

    Hi Gerard,
    thanks for your answer. I am reading the 2nd edition from 2004, I believe there is a lot of updated info since the 1st edition. Maybe you read the 1st edition?

    Right now, I am just getting started in film scoring and don't have any film projects done yet. I am more in a stage that I want to know how the whole proces of film scoring is done. So what I read in your answer is that when working on a project in which I will be the main audio editor/composer and everything is done on the computer (no live orchestra), I will not need to use the click/timing aspect. It's more something that comes into play when working with live recordings and video editors for communication, right?

    André



    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Mack View Post
    Hi Andre,

    I ve read that book - a long time ago now. I thought it was very good at the time but nowdays the concept is a little outdated. I think the short answer is no although others may disagree - as you say Logic basically does it all for you now even finding the scene edits for you and finding hit points.
    As a conductor the concepts of timings and clicks is very important to my own composing of ques within a film score so I think very much in terms of clicks/tempo/phrasing as this gives me a feel for what a "real musician" would play to. So the long answer to your question is yes - especially if you are recording with a live orchestra or overdubing solo musicians or moving your session to another studio etc
    A technique I use often if I have a guide dialogue track is to use the beat mapping function (usually uesd to tighten music tracks and samples) in the global track bar to select what beats and bars hit the transients in the dialogue then let Logic workout the tempo from scene to scene. It also alows you to denote where and how the tempo can change with in a scene if required. This used to be done with a stop watch and endless tables of tempos and time signatures.
    Thats my 2cents. Have fun scoring for film.
    Gerard
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  4. #4

    Re: About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

    Hi Andre,

    Thats correct. I tried to find the book to refresh my memory but has disappeared from my library. Todays film scoring is all "in the box" as they say - composed mixed mastered and even printed. The main reason is the time line of the post production process and delivery date. I might get a or two to compose record and deliver a film score there is no time for an orchestra anymore (or money). My last project I was supposed to get 3 months to do the score but the film got 'stuck in editing' and I got 3 weeks I was really hoping to get and orchestra together for the project because the film could carry a big action score.

    I would get into the global tracks in logic and not to worry about clicks. I basically have every que worked out , in out points, tempo, number of bars, time signatures and a tempo map of the whole film before I start. Or if i have a quick good improvised idea (midi) i lock it down to the tempo map using the beat mapping track in the global tracks - orchestrate it later. Or as is sometimes the case I am working with a music temp track from the editor or director - I tempo map that and start from there - in out, tempo, dynamics everything.

    As I referred to in previous post the concept of ticks and tempos and the feel of the music is very important to composing for film to make it sound more 'realistic' and helps to find the right way to transition between scenes - so it is good that you are getting into the older technique of film scoring. I did my degree in violin/viola and conducting so my music for film is composed rather than 'improvised'.

    Stay with logic and learn as much as you can it is the right tool for the job - i am still learning new techniques. I have finale, sibelius, and more but hardly use them.

    good luck
    Gerard

  5. #5

    Re: About clicks and timing when film scoring in Logic

    Thanks for this very good ideas on how to approach this, Gerard.

    Btw. I am using Sibelius for my scoring and my background is classical piano and composition. I have teachers degrees for both of them from some 20 years ago in Holland where I am from.

    Do you have any projects that I could look/listen to?

    best,
    André

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerard Mack View Post
    Hi Andre,

    Thats correct. I tried to find the book to refresh my memory but has disappeared from my library. Todays film scoring is all "in the box" as they say - composed mixed mastered and even printed. The main reason is the time line of the post production process and delivery date. I might get a or two to compose record and deliver a film score there is no time for an orchestra anymore (or money). My last project I was supposed to get 3 months to do the score but the film got 'stuck in editing' and I got 3 weeks I was really hoping to get and orchestra together for the project because the film could carry a big action score.

    I would get into the global tracks in logic and not to worry about clicks. I basically have every que worked out , in out points, tempo, number of bars, time signatures and a tempo map of the whole film before I start. Or if i have a quick good improvised idea (midi) i lock it down to the tempo map using the beat mapping track in the global tracks - orchestrate it later. Or as is sometimes the case I am working with a music temp track from the editor or director - I tempo map that and start from there - in out, tempo, dynamics everything.

    As I referred to in previous post the concept of ticks and tempos and the feel of the music is very important to composing for film to make it sound more 'realistic' and helps to find the right way to transition between scenes - so it is good that you are getting into the older technique of film scoring. I did my degree in violin/viola and conducting so my music for film is composed rather than 'improvised'.

    Stay with logic and learn as much as you can it is the right tool for the job - i am still learning new techniques. I have finale, sibelius, and more but hardly use them.

    good luck
    Gerard
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

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