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Topic: Midi Expression within Aria

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  1. #1

    Midi Expression within Aria

    Hi,
    I'm Ted Williamson and new to this forum. Please tell me if this is the wrong forum or place for my question. I'm sorry if this question has already been asked.

    I'm using Aria with the Garritan Ultimate collection. I have used Plogue to remap some channel volume CC7 codes to Expression CC11 codes for the Aria Player. This works fine for some sounds like the Oboe 1 Modern Solo from the GPO. However, if I load an ensemble sound like Full Strings - Winds 2 MW from the Instant Orchestra, Aria responds differently. It now uses the codes to fade from the strings to the woodwinds, rather give me expression (volume up and down) which is what I need.

    What CC code do I need to control expression for these type of patches?

    Thanks,
    Ted Williamson

  2. #2

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    Hi,
    I'm Ted Williamson and new to this forum. Please tell me if this is the wrong forum or place for my question. I'm sorry if this question has already been asked.

    I'm using Aria with the Garritan Ultimate collection. I have used Plogue to remap some channel volume CC7 codes to Expression CC11 codes for the Aria Player. This works fine for some sounds like the Oboe 1 Modern Solo from the GPO. However, if I load an ensemble sound like Full Strings - Winds 2 MW from the Instant Orchestra, Aria responds differently. It now uses the codes to fade from the strings to the woodwinds, rather give me expression (volume up and down) which is what I need.

    What CC code do I need to control expression for these type of patches?

    Thanks,
    Ted Williamson
    Hello, Ted - Welcome to the Forum, and congrats on being an owner of the Garritan Ultimate Collection!

    Where you've posted your question is fine, but this Forum isn't visited very often anymore really. The place where most members check in and hang out is General Discussion. I invite you to post anything you want there, questions, comments, most anything you can think of.

    I'm not sure what you mean when you say you have "...used Plogue to remap some channel volume CC7 coes to Expression CC11"--You've used Plogue? In what way? They are the original developers of ARIA - but I don't know why you would be needing to do any conversion. Perhaps you're talking about using MIDI files you found online, in which case they're likely to have CC7 as volume control, but you need that to be read as CC11 to work in Garritan. Maybe I've guessed what you mean? - If so, I'll point out, for one thing, that volume control of Garritan instruments (not all, but most) - is usually controlled by CC1, CC2, or CC11. ARIA interprets all those controllers in the same way.

    HOWEVER - In the Instant Orchestra patch you're talking about, CC1 (Mod Wheel) does exactly what you're describing: It crossfades from strings to woods. That's why it has both orchestral sections in the name of the patch, and also why it says "MW"--as in ModWheel.

    That particular patch is a "Blending Texture." On P. 64 of the IO manual, it says:

    Note: There is no Expression Switch with the Blending Textures (CC Controlled) patches since the Mod Wheel is used for cross-fading and normal velocity volume control applies. Blending Textures (CC Controlled) patches have no GPO mode option.


    IO (Instant Orchestra) is in a category of its own, working and behaving differently than any of the other Garritan Libraries. A more thorough examination of all the manuals will help you sort it all out.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Hi Randy,
    Thanks for your reply. I see the note on page 64 and understand what is is saying.

    My Expression pedal produces CC7 and most of the sounds in the Garritan sounds use CC11 for expression, that is why I use Plogue to remap CC7 codes to CC11 codes.

    From what the note says, I'm guessing that I need to just use CC7 for expression on the Blending Textures. I was hoping to use CC11 for expression and CC7 to set the desired patch volume, but I understand what you are saying.

    Maybe one way to deal with this Blending Textures situation is to remap my expression pedal values, making sure to remap a specific set of values to another specific set of values. For example: CC7 (values 1 to 127) is remapped to CC11 (values 5 to 80). As I move my foot on the pedal, it would give a specific softest value (5) and then a specific loudest value (80) and the codes between these two values would be remapped accordingly.

    This is my next experiment.

    Thanks for your help,
    Ted Williamson

  4. #4

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    that is why I use Plogue to remap CC7 codes to CC11 codes.
    Randy, I think in this case "Plogue" means "Bidule", but I could be wrong Plogue is the company name, and Bidule is the product, since they are not English names, they are often confused.
    David Viens, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc.
    Montreal. http://www.plogue.com

  5. #5

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by David (plogue) View Post
    Randy, I think in this case "Plogue" means "Bidule", but I could be wrong Plogue is the company name, and Bidule is the product, since they are not English names, they are often confused.
    Ah! I bet you're correct, David. Isn't that right, Ted, that you've been referring to Bidule when you've mentioned using Plogue?

    Answering your new post:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    ...My Expression pedal produces CC7 and most of the sounds in the Garritan sounds use CC11 for expression, that is why I use Plogue to remap CC7 codes to CC11 codes...
    Oh, I see. By default, Expression pedals are set to produce CC11, Expression - hence the term Expression Pedal. Apparently you've re-programmed yours to send out CC7. But if you returned it to its default, you wouldn't have to be doing any data conversion like you've described.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    ...From what the note says, I'm guessing that I need to just use CC7 for expression on the Blending Textures. I was hoping to use CC11 for expression and CC7 to set the desired patch volume, but I understand what you are saying...
    The Blending Textures are different from the other IO patches, since they're programmed to cross fade between two sound layers.

    Here's something to understand - ARIA interprets CC1, CC2, and CC11 in the same way. Most Garritan instruments have their volume controlled that way - and those three different controllers are available so the needs of each kind of user are met: CC1 for people using a keyboard Modwheel, CC2 for people using a Breath Controlelr, and CC11 for people using a standard Expression pedal.

    But the Blending Textures usurp the usual volume control to instead crossfade between layers. That leaves the usual volume control unavailable, as it explains in the manual.

    You're correct that usually CC7 should only be used for setting the potential volume of a patch. That CC controls the faders in ARIA's mixer. But in the case of Blending Textures, you would need to use CC7 for volume control.

    If you're in the habit of bouncing your MIDI tracks to Audio, the way I am, more volume work would be done on those bounced audio tracks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    ...Maybe one way to deal with this Blending Textures situation is to remap my expression pedal values, making sure to remap a specific set of values to another specific set of values. For example: CC7 (values 1 to 127) is remapped to CC11 (values 5 to 80). As I move my foot on the pedal, it would give a specific softest value (5) and then a specific loudest value (80) and the codes between these two values would be remapped accordingly...
    But of course the Blending Textures will still respond in the way they're programmed. Incoming CC11 will crossfade between the patches.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Thanks Randy,
    I'm sorry I used the wrong term. Yes, I use Bidule. My expression pedal produces CC7 by default and I typically remap it to CC11.

    I think I know what I need to do to get the desired results with the Blended Patches.

    Thanks for your help.

    Ted Williamson

  7. #7

    Re: Midi Expression within Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Williamson View Post
    Thanks Randy,
    I'm sorry I used the wrong term. Yes, I use Bidule. My expression pedal produces CC7 by default and I typically remap it to CC11.

    I think I know what I need to do to get the desired results with the Blended Patches.

    Thanks for your help.

    Ted Williamson
    Cool - Yes, David from Plogue got that straight for me. Bidule is a neat app, where you can plug most anything into anything else. I understand now what you're doing. Except for one thing - An Expression Pedal sends out CC11, the standard MIDI controller for "expression" ie: instrument performance volume control. You must have a volume pedal, and that sends out CC7. But since you can remap it with Bidule to do what you want, that's all that really matters.

    And so with those unique Blended Patches, you'll need to use CC7 for volume control, but CC11, with its crossfading function between layers can sound great.

    Have fun.

    Randy

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