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Topic: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

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  1. #1

    Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    I\'ve got to post something about a comment that\'s been bothering me.

    Originally posted by feeserface:
    feeserface
    I sure hope so, as someone who waited for these because I saw the vienna-tier system as bogus (not to mention these sounds sounding beautiful) I hope EW is as magnanimous in updates to its users as they have been in the past. New articulations, updates and support in addition to sound quality are begining to sway users from one library to the other and the market for samples seems to be slowly moving towards the \'software\' line, so barring a complete overhaul I pray they keep \'here and theres\' free.

    just my 2cents
    boris zelkin
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">First of all, the things VSL and EWQLSO do are entirely different. The VSL team is constantly recording new material, thus the library size is expanding and the cost for each new edition goes up. That\'s just common knowledge and to think that\'s \"bogus\" is ridiculous and ignorant.

    Nick and Doug have already stated it\'s entirely unlikely they\'ll be able to go back and record more articulations, due to the time constraints on the orchestra and Professor Johnson\'s ability to do another session. Unless I\'m mistaken, EWQLSO\'s updates will be just like Garritan\'s -- new articulations, programs, and fixes for any tuning or pitch problems. There may be some sample editing (just like looped harmonics or the looped Grand Sustain for GOS) invloved, but no new recordings. They may have some instruments and articulations not yet available in the current version that may have been held off because of time constraints, but you\'re basically getting more mileage out of the existing samples you have access to. They would probably give this to you free, or charge a small fee for say a disc printing or whatnot -- I\'m not Nick or Doug so I can\'t answer that.

    VSL isn\'t doing the same thing. They are handing you a larger version of the library and you\'re paying for the *new* samples, not the old ones. They aren\'t just tweaked versions but entirely new recordings of articulations (sordino strings) and instruments (English horn and Wagner Tuba) and you should be expected to pay for them. That\'s not a bogus claim at all. I think it was Doug that stated he and Nick had version of the samples that were recorded at rates higher than 96K. If, when the technology permitted, they released say a version of the library with a higher sampling rate, should they not be entitled to a small fee from you for remaking the library over *again* with the higher rates? Sorry, but I don\'t see either of them letting something that large going for free, as that\'s aking to literally rebuilding the library from scratch or making a Giga version (though by the time GS3.0 gets here they\'ll have recorded a new orchestra).

    Gary Garritan goes out and records a different harp and sells the samples. It\'s bogus for him sell it because he already has a Gigaharp library? I think not. Nuno Fonseca wrote a completely new version of the word building utility for VotA. I haven\'t been following the thread or discussion but I remember Nick stating that he was either going to raise the price of VotA slightly, leave it be and give a portion of the profits to Nuno for taking the time to write the program, or have the program as a separate purchase (this may be wrong, but I remember it being something along those lines). I don\'t think that\'s unreasonable at all either -- you don\'t *need* the program to use VotA just like you don\'t *need* the new samples in VSL. They recorded them, he wrote the new program, and you should have to pay for them.

    If EW/QL went out and *did* manage to get ahold of Keith to record another session for the library, would you raise a stink about having to pay for the new samples? If you do that\'s kinda childish of you to do so, not to mention pathetic. I don\'t think there\'s a composer on this site that doesn\'t understand what they would have to go through to record another session and not agree to pay for the new material. I really can\'t see Nick or Doug doing another session with the orchestra and giving the new material away free -- they\'d have serious financial problems if they did, not to mention a lot of people would question their sanity.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    You\'re right, Lee. The Pro Edition combines the new material with the First Edition material. A few articulations have been updated/upgraded from the First ed.

  3. #3

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    Originally posted by Russ:
    Nick and Doug have already stated it\'s entirely unlikely they\'ll be able to go back and record more articulations, due to the time constraints on the orchestra and Professor Johnson\'s ability to do another session.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Russ,

    With respect, please show me \"any\" post where we have said that.

    We have already discussed new recording sessions for EWQLSO to \"add\" to the library in a \"significant\" way. The \"whole\" team is willing to do it - including Keith - but we need a break after 18 months of non-stop exhausting work.

    Just want to set the record straight.

    Take care,

    - Doug

  4. #4

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    VSL users can have new instruments (celesta, solo violin, etc) and more articulations totally free !!! (ship on DVD) ... patches and \"bugs\" are free download on the VSL web site. So, the first edition is \"standalone\" ... if you want (many) more instruments (Contrabass Tuba, etc) you can buy the Pro edition ... BUT you can wait for a new update (Symphonic) with a VIP price. VSL team are working on new utilities and versions (free to download when available) ... So, (ok ... it\'s $$$) but you can save on other things ...

    Mathieu Laprise
    Sonomax inc.

  5. #5

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    Originally posted by Russ:
    I think it was Doug that stated he and Nick had version of the samples that were recorded at rates higher than 96K. If, when the technology permitted, they released say a version of the library with a higher sampling rate, should they not be entitled to a small fee from you for remaking the library over *again* with the higher rates? Sorry, but I don\'t see either of them letting something that large going for free, as that\'s aking to literally rebuilding the library from scratch or making a Giga version (though by the time GS3.0 gets here they\'ll have recorded a new orchestra).
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Again, to set the record straight - we \"already\" have a fully edited, fully programmed 88.2k/24-bit version of EWQLSO that in my opinion sounds even better than the current released version.

    When computers can handle it we will make it available to EWQLSO users at a nominal charge.

    Take care,

    - Doug

  6. #6

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    Again, to set the record straight - we \"already\" have a fully edited, fully programmed 88.2k/24-bit version of EWQLSO that in my opinion sounds even better than the current released version.

    When computers can handle it we will make it available to EWQLSO users at a nominal charge.

    Take care,

    - Doug
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">
    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    With respect, please show me \"any\" post where we have said that.

    We have already discussed new recording sessions for EWQLSO to \"add\" to the library in a \"significant\" way. The \"whole\" team is willing to do it - including Keith - but we need a break after 18 months of non-stop exhausting work.

    Just want to set the record straight.

    Take care,

    - Doug
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I drew both conclusions from a statement that you made in the debate over .mp3 postings a few months back.

    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    It\'s easy to reduce the quality of your source material, but it is impossible to increase it if it was never captured in the first place. We actually recorded EWQLSO simultaneously at 88.2k and 176.4k because Keith is now in his mid-sixties and will probably never do this again. We know it\'s impractical to use this now, but we have preserved the data for future use.

    Technology will continue to develop as it always has. These specs will be laughable in the future.

    Take care,

    Doug Rogers
    -------------------
    EASTWEST
    www.soundsonline.com
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">As I said, I haven\'t followed *every single thread* on the topic as I don\'t have that much time. Usually when I hear someone state \"will probably never\" that almost always means \"never.\" And yes, I got the rate mixed up but I didn\'t actively set out to get the right number, though I should have.

  7. #7

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    I just realized VOTA was $500 now, instead of $450. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

  8. #8

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    No VotA has always been $499. But there are sales sometimes. I don\'t get a penny of the money charged for the utility, by the way. And that\'s how it should be.

  9. #9

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    Originally posted by Nick Phoenix:
    No VotA has always been $499. But there are sales sometimes. I don\'t get a penny of the money charged for the utility, by the way. And that\'s how it should be.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">That must\'ve been some long seasonal sale or something, cause the price was $450 for a few months, and I remember the word builder 1.0 being free, but I have no idea how good 2.0 is, so I\'ll find out someday.

    Actually, the $500 price doesn\'t matter cause soundsonline.com has a freakin sale like...every week. LOL! I just did a price quote with the added AES sale. Total WITH shipping is $360. That is MUCH better. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Jared

  10. #10

    Re: Comment about VSL "tier" pricing

    Originally posted by dougrogers:
    We have already discussed new recording sessions for EWQLSO to \"add\" to the library in a \"significant\" way. The \"whole\" team is willing to do it - including Keith
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Wow!!!! I\'m so incredibly glad to hear that!!

    True legato please!

    Doug, whatever you decide to do, it\'s great news that you are considering further recordings.

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