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Topic: Bardstown or PMI???

  1. #1

    Bardstown or PMI???

    Im going to buy one of the 2 Bosendorfer\'s from either Bardstown or PMI, and i was curious who likes which one better and why? What are your opinions of either of them? Thanks!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    Originally posted by AbsintheMinded:
    Im going to buy one of the 2 Bosendorfer\'s from either Bardstown or PMI, and i was curious who likes which one better and why? What are your opinions of either of them? Thanks!

    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I like both of those pianos a great deal--they are two of the very best.

    Bardstown--Bright, powerful, very dynamic, very present, good for \"glossy\" timbred parts. Nice growl down low, and a super gentleman behind the product, Kip McGinnis.

    PMI--Another great gentleman, Michiel Post, is the author of this piano library. Two microphone perspectives are offered, the closer is a bit more ambient than the Bardstown, and the more ambient one is WAY ambient. You can mix and match, provided your platform can hack the double polyphony hit. This one plays a bit more like a concert setting, to me.

    This is one of those cases where I would say REALLY listen to those demos that are offered, and see which sound is a match for the majority of your work. Either one is a great choice.

  3. #3

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    Wellll....after listening and reading your reviews, it looks like i have to have them both. Can\'t have too many piano\'s. Man, i should do crack, it\'d be a cheaper habit. ;-)


  4. #4

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    I guess thats how you know when you\'re a true musician.

  5. #5

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???


    I love the Bardstown Audio Bose. In fact, I can\'t wait till Giga 3.0 comes out so I can order the 24 bit version. I have found this piano very versatile and really natural sounding.

    Good Luck with your piano exploration.
    Garius Hill

  6. #6

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???


    I have Bardstown\'s Bosen\' (which I like) and I have a great urge to buy PMI\'s Steinway too. But I\'m afraid that I\'ll be dissapionted to spend another $200 on a second piano - if they\'ll sound pretty close. Most of my work is piano with-in a lot of instruments, not solo.

    How would you (or anybody else listening) describe the difference. Since I have the Bards\' Bosen\' we can reference to that sound.


  7. #7

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    The ultimate test for me is, can the sampled piano, once recorded via wave file, fool the trained ear? The first and only sampled piano to pass that test, for my ears, is the Post Bosendofer; the wet samples. (The package contains a number of different samples of the same instrument, some \"dry\" others \"wet.\") When properly recorded, the piano is completely indistinguishable from any modern solo piano recording in a hall setting. Unfortunately 128 kps mp3 demo files don\'t really provide a good measure of a piano\'s strengths and weaknesses. I\'m so impressed by the Post Bos since I bought it that I\'m currently in the throes of changing over my entire mp3.com Bach site to the BOS sample. Currently I\'m using a modified version of the Truan Steinway B sample, which, while a pretty amazing sample considering its age, is not up to the Post Bos. The Post BOS, in my view, is THE piano sample to beat. Of course, eventually it will be superceded, but there\'s nothing in sight as yet that comes close.

    J Grant


  8. #8
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Dallas, Texas

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    Hi Sharmy and all,

    That\'s a very accurate assessment.

    Production demands are everything in a sampled piano. That\'s why you cannot really award a \"best\" designation. At a given level of quality, the decision is completely determined by the production.

    For instance, the PMI distant sample would be a complete disaster in a pop setting where you also had guitar amps mic\'ed inches from the cones. The piano would sound like it was being played in the next room, no matter what kind of processing you attempted on either track. Ditto for juxtaposing it with a vocal track, recorded 6\" from a U87. The presence gap would be so significant as to destroy any hopes of putting them \"in the same song.\"

    On the other hand, a really close-mic\'ed piano, juxtaposed with the Dan Dean Ensemble Brass\'s distant microphones would be a challenge to engineer, although less of a challenge than the first example. Ambient removal tools are nonexistant (and fairly impossible to implement save really rude attempts like dramatic use of an expander), but ambient addition tools are fairly advanced and becoming more so by the day.

    Still you\'d have a basic disconnect in the nature of the tracks you are trying to combine, which WILL lead to a lot more work on the engineering side.

    This is why your top-shelf engineers and producers get paid. Designing a microphone plot for a production (meaning: a full album, a trademark sound) is the very most basic task that gets accomplished. Producers spend a lot of time those first few days (or weeks, if it\'s a really full-bore funded deal) \"getting the sound,\" so that when tracking is done and mixing begins, the raw materials have very little compromise from track to track. The idea is to have it sounding amazing from the tracks alone, so that the engineering/producing tasks are artistic in nature, not corrective.


    As this applies to pianos, the very best thing a person can do, next to auditioning many in the context of a particular production, is try to choose the one or ones which most closely match the majority of music one produces.

    To a degree, the intrinsic \"quality\" of the sampled piano becomes secondary to its suitability to a role. Like a director, your \"casting\" has a great deal to do with your success, sometimes more than necessarily having the \"best.\" Jack Nicholson is a great actor. All the makeup in the world wouldn\'t turn him into Hamlet.

  9. #9

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    So would you guys say: out of the box

    Bardstown is good for solo stuff and pop mixes?

    PMI is good for Hall stuff, like say in a piano concerto mix?

    can the 2 be used together, like say \"2 piano-4 hands\" mix? or are the 2 night and day piano comparisons?

    Aaron Dirk

  10. #10

    Re: Bardstown or PMI???

    I have tried a number of various pianos together, and got some really interesting sounds and response, but there were always tuning problems in various places, which rendered it useless.

    I didn\'t try combining PMI Bosen and Bardstown Bosen (since I don\'t yet own the later).

    However, I have had very good sucess with combining the PMI Bosen dry and wet samples (about a 50/50 mix gives me the sound I want). Of course in this case you have the same engineer recording the same piano, albeit twice, so that would explain why the tuning is not an issue.

    So, my experience in combining two different pianos has not been successful. Your milage may be different!


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