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Topic: New piece

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  1. #1

    New piece

    Hi all, here\'s a newly made mp3 of my newest choral prelude. It\'s over the hymn \"Amazing Grace\".

    Click here!

    Please let me hear what you think of the mix, real or not so real, where can I improve.
    Of course if you have comments on the composition itself, it\'s ok too! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Btw. For those who are interested the piece was composed over time period of two or three hours. However, I made some adjustments the day after but those where minor changes. The whole process (compose-adjustments-sequencing-mixing) took me about 12 hours. Of course this isn\'t an complicated composition, I know. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Anyway, any comments/critiques are appreciated!

  2. #2

    Re: New piece

    I usually don\'t do this, but I have some free time before I go to bed [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    For this music you are composing (I don\'t know if baroque is your primary style or not) you\'d definitely benefit from the VSL performance set. You have composed something that is virtually impossible to replicate realistically with ordinary samples. The trumpet line is very exposed and sounded fake from the get-go. A trumpet player would slur many of the notes. The static attack on each note makes it quite unrealistic. Mind you, it\'s not a bad attempt. I can hear you\'re riding the cc11 controller, but my overall impression is \"static sounding\". Now I know there are different ways of interpreting baroque music, but this is simply too static for my taste. The rest of the brass sounds terribly flat, lifeless and strained/forced. I\'d like to hear a player who could perform a piece as static as this. If it lasted any longer it would have been very tiring to listen to. Hans Zimmer once said in an interview ; \"I can listen to a single violins note forever if it evolves in a natural and dynamic way. If it\'s static it loses my attention after a few seconds.\" - Now it\'s up to you to agree or disagree with this, but I think it\'s a very valid point, and even more valid in the world of midi-mockups where every single detail is important.
    I suggest you make the harmonic content more dynamic. Small swells for rising progressions and small dims for falling ones, for example. How would you play a Bach Invension on the piano?

    You could also benefit from adding a lowpass filter, controlled via your modwheel or some other free midi controller #. The rest of the brass material sounds like a bunch of General Midi samples.. very cheap and unnatural sounding. Around 00:24 (the trumpet trill) I kinda get a \"two-frame\" loop image (imagine a badly drawn cartoon which has two frames of a guy banging on something - in loop.) - If you have a recorded trill sample, USE IT. If not, avoid such things, unless you have the VSL performance set which allows for 100% realistic solo figures, even in the most exposed and translucent arrangements.
    I\'m not in any way trying to sell VSL, but I\'m thinking it would be a very wise decision if you like to compose this kind of music, be it chamber music or bigger ensembles where solo instruments are exposed.

    Don\'t let these comments put you off, though. No one would be able to pull this off with conventional samples. This kind of music is better left for real musicians to play. The effort is good, and the composition is nice. Depending on how serious you are with this you might want to check out the VSL performance set.

    Good work.


    Thomas

  3. #3

    Re: New piece

    Hi Thomas, thanks for taking the time!

    I compose in any styles, but I generally like the baroque style most.

    Maybe I should have using cc11 more?
    \"I\'d like to hear a player who could perform a piece as static as this\" - I\'ll try to make it more dynamic in next attempt.
    Btw. I was trying to make those swells with cc11, maybe too little? Maybe I should modify the velocity of the notes instead of using cc11?

    I\'m thinking about buying VSL or EWQLSO, but first I must buy better computer and audio card. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    I agree, that classical music should be left for real musicians to play. However, I love to experiment and see how close I can possible get to real life performance with midi. I\'ll try again. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Anyway, thanks a lot for your comments.

    Ps. Maybe you could pull it off. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  4. #4

    Re: New piece

    I\'ve posted fixed version, and remixed it.

    Click here

    Let me know if you like this version more, and also if you have some tips on further improvement then let me know.

  5. #5

    Re: New piece

    Maybe you should try it with woodwinds (hb, ingl horn, basson)? Melody is still too loud. For a baroque style I think you should animate more the conterpoint, no?

  6. #6

    Re: New piece

    Markus, I\'m still in process of getting full orchestral samples. Currently I just have brass covered and some flutes. [img]images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

    There\'s some tempo animation, however in when you perform baroque music you must watch out to not overdo the tempo changes. So it\'s always question of how much is too much.

    I know that the trumpet is little too bright, so in next version I\'ll try to make it slightly more soft and darker.

    Anyway, I\'m looking forward when I have more options in regard of instruments. I don\'t want to post pieces which has to make use of my not so good soundfonts.
    However, that doesn\'t stop me composing symphonic compositions which make use of the late-romantic orchestra setup. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
    I\'m looking forward to share them with you all, when I have my virtual orchestra completed.

  7. #7

    Re: New piece

    I like it! I\'m a fan of this kind of music and I\'m also a fan of Stefan\'s work. I think he\'s a very talanted composer.
    Since I know that it\'s our library \"Bigga Orchestral Brass - BoB\", that has been used, and Thomas where some negative remarks on it, I want to make a few comments.

    First of all, I don\'t think it sounds bad, soundwise. Does it sound like VSL? No! Does it have the same pricetag as VSL? No! Would I be a rich man if I could produce a library like VSL with a pricetag as BoB? Yes!
    Does BoB sound like a \"bunch of General Midi samples.. very cheap and unnatural sounding.\"? I really don\'t think that, (ok, I\'m biased, I made it... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ). We have had several mails from happy BoB users that are thrilled about the great value and possibilities that BoB gives them.

    There\'s always a matter of taste involved in discussions on the sound of different samples, and you shouldn\'t argue on that, but I think that a lot of people will hear this piece of music and not only think that it\'s a great piece of music but also that it\'s not that bad sounding coming from a $189 brass library!

  8. #8

    Re: New piece

    Markus, I\'m still in process of getting full orchestral samples. Currently I just have brass covered and some flutes
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Hello Falcon,
    ok, that\'s why. because a brass ensemble was a bit surprising to me for baroque style. I like baroque music very much either. What I ment about the counterpoint was not to add TOO much animation but, \"share it by everybody\". One voice plays longer notes, then the others play a bit faster, It\'s often like this in counterpoint (not always of course). I think it\'s called rythem complementary or something like that. (ok, ok, you have a trumpet solo what is a justification less counterpoint!) I mean what is missing a bit is the reponses from voice to voice, you see what I mean? but maybe it\'s just because the other voices are not loud enough. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    Best,
    Markus.

  9. #9

    Re: New piece

    Hi Markus, ok that\'s what you mean by \"animation\".

    If you take close \"look\" at the horn and trombone part, then you see that there\'s the animation you are talking about. The thing is with this piece that the trumpet is acting like cantus firmus, just ornamented. So it\'s the other voices which then need to have the \"animated\" parts.
    Maybe the horn and (specially?) trombone isn\'t loud enough as you say, however, the most important voice is the trumpet solo.
    Also if you would have the score you would see that everybody get their fair share, though the bass part is kind of oblicato and not so difficult to play except that there are some low notes which can be difficult to get just right.

    Other aspect of the animate thing, is that if you do it constantly then you are at risk of sounding mechanical and obvious. So it\'s not a good thing to always think, yea there\'s that quarter note in X voice then I must have eighth notes in the other voice. To keep the music interesting you must not be too obvious.

    Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the piece.

    Btw. Have you studied counterpoint? (Just curious.)

    If you want to hear another baroque piece, then see this thread: http://www.northernsounds.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=004778

  10. #10

    Re: New piece

    Originally posted by Thomas_J:


    Hans Zimmer once said in an interview ; \"I can listen to a single violins note forever if it evolves in a natural and dynamic way. If it\'s static it loses my attention after a few seconds.\" -

    Small swells for rising progressions and small dims for falling ones, for example. How would you play a Bach Invension on the piano?

    This kind of music is better left for real musicians to play. The effort is good, and the composition is nice. Depending on how serious you are with this you might want to check out the VSL performance set.

    Good work.


    Thomas
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Not to get into a musicology debate, but my feeling is that Hans Zimmer would really not like authentic Baroque music all that much. As you probably know, the whole idea of crescendo, decresendo was non-existant. They used Plateau, or Terraced dynamics. When dynamics do shift, it is very sudden. Usually by having many voices drop out, or come in. And Bach inventions on the piano? They were written for harpsicord or virginal. no cresendo/decresendo except by adding or losing voices...(if you want to stay authentic)

    If there was anything historically wrong with the composition, it was the static quality of having the same number of voices throughout. But then again, it is a chorale, so falcon1 is not off base at all stylistically.

    I\'m not a trumpet player, but I believe they would opt for some more detache\' playing in some of those passages as well.

    I\'m also thinking that some forms of Baroque music can be handled quite authentically by samples. I never tried a string sinfonia with GOS, but I think....(other than the size of the sections being a bit large) could possibly do a convincing job of it...Vivaldi anyone?

    Brass stuff would be a tough nut. I have to agree with you there. By the way, how does that Piccolo Trumpet sound and perform in VSL?

    Keep up the good work falcon1. I think you did okay with what sounds like very limited resources.

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