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Topic: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

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  1. #1

    ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Is it true that in an instance of ARIA on output 1/2 all instruments of the particular ARIA are sounding? The picture from SONAR:




    I hear every other instrument ALSO on 1/2. Or... there must be a clever answer to this.

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Hi, Raymond - What you're noticing is something that's always been true with all versions of ARIA, starting with the very first one.

    When you use a built-in reverb in ARIA, using the Send knobs to set different levels for your instruments, the wet signal for All instruments comes out of the first audio pair 1/2.

    The best approach is not use 1/2 for an instrument. Leave it empty so that audio track becomes your reverb track for the entire mix. See?

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hi, Raymond - What you're noticing is something that's always been true with all versions of ARIA, starting with the very first one.

    When you use a built-in reverb in ARIA, using the Send knobs to set different levels for your instruments, the wet signal for All instruments comes out of the first audio pair 1/2.

    The best approach is not use 1/2 for an instrument. Leave it empty so that audio track becomes your reverb track for the entire mix. See?

    Randy
    Never used the WET setting in previous versions, so I didn't notice. Thanks.

    Raymond

  4. #4

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Right, as soon as you have one of the two reverbs on and turn up any Sends, the effected signals will be coming only out of audio channel 1/2.

    When working in your DAW software, it's really still best to still use dry signals coming from ARIA, using host plugins, like you have Altiverb which is much more sophisticated than the convolution reverb in ARIA.

    But when you're working in notation, like your Ovation program, then it works well to use one of ARIA's reverbs.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    But when you're working in notation, like your Ovation program, then it works well to use one of ARIA's reverbs.

    Randy
    It is Overture and in Overture I used to use PerfectSpace, so still no problems with coming from 1/2. But now that you warned me..... many thanks.

    Raymond

  6. #6

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    The best approach is not use 1/2 for an instrument. Leave it empty so that audio track becomes your reverb track for the entire mix. See?
    Then it's too bad that the ensembles don't load into Aria in this way.

  7. #7

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mabry View Post
    Then it's too bad that the ensembles don't load into Aria in this way.
    Mabry, your post makes me see that I need to qualify the advice from me you quoted:

    For people using Finale or another notation program, the way reverberant signals from all ARIA slots come out of the first stereo pair works fine. In fact, it doesn't make any difference.

    And for a lot of people using DAW software, this particular facet of ARIA's design also doesn't make any difference.

    It's really only DAW software users who prefer to bounce MIDI tracks to Audio who need to consider this part of ARIA's construction if they want to use either of the reverb plugins available in ARIA.

    If they have all 16 slots filled with instruments, and bounce each to separate audio tracks, they'll have one track, the first one, with both slot one's instrument and the wet signal from all the rest. And they'll also have 15 dry tracks with each of the other instruments. That makes mixing choices more limited than if they would have left the first slot empty, and used it only for reverb, as I suggested on this thread.

    If this approach is used, with audio track one only having reverb signal, then it's possible for the user to adjust the amount of reverb throughout a project. When the instrumentation becomes more dense, they can automate the reverb track down a bit to avoid possible muddiness. This method gets the same results as automating reverb Sends going to a reverb Bus in real time - The only difference being that its only the reverb level of all instruments being effected universally as a group that they control, and usually that's what the user wants to do.

    Most DAW software users who make it a habit to bounce their tracks to audio don't use ARIA's built in reverb, exactly because of the limitations involved. Even if the wet signals for ARIA 's slots were on each separate track rather than just the first one, people bouncing to audio would still end up with wet signals which are frozen, already rendered. The amount of reverb wouldn't be able to be changed after the bounce. And that's precisely why most audio bouncers prefer to use reverb plugins in their recording software. Throughout the process of mixing, the amount of reverb can be constantly tweaked if necessary since the effected signals haven't been rendered - they're always being played live through the reverb Bus - not set in stone until the 2-track master is made.

    I told the ARIA developers some time ago that I thought it would be helpful if ARIA's wet signals could come out of each of the 16 discrete audio channels. They made it clear to me how that programming would be totally impractical, and wouldn't be beneficial to most users anyway.

    So, Mabry, you're right that when an Ensemble is loaded, the first instrument loads into slot A, the reverb track. But it's not an oversight or a mistake that they load that way. As you can see, for the majority of users, this works fine.

    My quote about not loading an instrument in slot A was advice aimed at people working the same way I do. I don't use ARIA's reverbs, except sometimes as stand-ins while I'm still working in the MIDI realm. But once I've done all my MIDI work, I always bounce everything to Audio, and I want clean, dry tracks to start the process of audio mixing. It makes my work take at least 3 or 4 times longer than people who only work in the MIDI realm, but I work that way since I'm able to produce projects with more polish that way - It's how I feel I have to work, and other people with analog hardware mixing experience tend to work that way also.

    But, the way ARIA's constructed isn't faulty. Most people have no issues with the way the ARIA reverb units are handled. And for those of us who bounce to audio, it's not really an issue either since we prefer using DAW reverb plug-ins. If we want to use an ARIA reverb, than we just have to know how to use ARIA most effectively for our own purposes.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    I haven't been able to post for a few weeks as the laptop has been hooked up in another room and trying to type is just too awkward.

    A very quick add to this thread. I've found if you select the 2nd slot down first, before selecting the ensemble you want, then the ensemble will load in and leave the first slot empty.

    I'm also really pleased that this version of ARIA doesn't crash when I try to use ASIO4all. Yes!

    Thanks for the clear explanation of how ARIA reverb work Randy, I've bookmarked for reference.
    yjoh

    Music... A Joy For Life.

  9. #9

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by yjoh View Post
    ...A very quick add to this thread. I've found if you select the 2nd slot down first, before selecting the ensemble you want, then the ensemble will load in and leave the first slot empty...
    Excellent, yjoh - Thanks so much for that tip. Of course you're right, why it didn't occur to me to post that earlier is beyond me!

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: ARIA 1.504 - is this true?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Excellent, yjoh - Thanks so much for that tip. Of course you're right, why it didn't occur to me to post that earlier is beyond me!

    Randy
    You (and we) are growing old........

    Raymond

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