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Topic: VSL Question

  1. #1

    VSL Question

    I couldn\'t wait for QLSO and bought the VSL Performance set (thank you so much Peter - talk about great service...). The woodwinds are worth the price alone. Fantastic. And the soft brass legatos are cool. Question - how does the VSL Cube brass compare to SAM? I\'m just debating buying the cube or putting together the rest in pieces and saving some $$.


  2. #2

    Re: VSL Question

    Sam and Vienna sound quite different. French Horn wise, I don\'t use the Vienna Cube Horns. I love the perf. legato but Sam and Dan Dean have a lot more power than the cube does.

    The Vienna Cube tbones are outstanding- tons of power and presence. I like them better than Dan Dean Brass Ens. but do not have Sam Bones to compare. Probably my favorite sounds on the cube are the bones.

    The percussion on the cube is great, but not a lot of room. Very easy to work with but lacking the thunder of G-town and probably QLSO. Definately sounds more natural vs. the big Hollywood slam.

    I do not use the woodwinds in the Vienna cube. The legato stuff is just too good. I prefer to use volume curves on the leg. samples vs. crossfade dyn inst in the cube. Giga 3 should have 2 layers dyn crossfade for leg inst. EXS already does.

    The strings ens in the orch cube are great. I layer them with SI and am very happy. SI has more warm room tone while Vienna provides great detail and bow noise.

    Trumpets in the Vienna cube are good but still not definitive IMO. I layer them with Dan Dean Trumpet Ensembles Ambient and am pretty happy with the result. Hoping QLSO will take this up another notch.

    Also waiting to find out more about what Sonic Implants has in store for brass and woodwinds. SI strings have a wonderful tone and am sure they will nail the trumpets in a similiar fashion.

    On a limitied budget I would purchase the performance set as you have done and wait for QLSO. Just as may who are using it have said on this forum, once you use the perf. legato samples its hard to imagine working with anything esle.


  3. #3

    Re: VSL Question

    Just depends on the type of sound you\'re going for. Right now, VSL uses Viennese horns while SAM uses German horns so expect a completely different sound from one another. Do you want the brighter sound from the current VSL horn (an F Horn is to be produced for the Symphonic Cube) or are you like me and want the darker sound of the German Horn in SAM (and EWQLSO).

    Also, don\'t forget Dan Dean\'s Solo Brass and Brass Ensembles -- though I\'ve heard some comments about particular notes in the trumpets havin spatial problems, there\'s not really been bad comments about it\'s sound and usage.

    Personally, while I love SAM Horns to death, I can not wait to purchase either EWQLSO or VSL Brass ( or both ). VSL/EWQLSO and SAM have entirely different sounds and purposes, so you have to go for what suits your own style.

    Same thing pretty much goes for your SAM Trombones as your SAM Horns. Go for what suits your tastes. If you write for auxillary brass, EWQLSO or VSL is going to be your place for that -- I think Dan Dean only has a Euphonium instrument aside from a Piccolo Trumpet.

    Listen to demos from SAM -- they allow you to hear the articulations without any \'instruments cluttering\' in the tutorial demos. I am not sure, but I *think* I recall someone mentioning that Dan Dean would render a demo for you if you were to supply him the .mid file -- don\'t quote me on that.

    Since we haven\'t heard EWQLSO\'s trumpets, I can say that your best bet for a trumpet solo or ensemble patch is going to be VSL or Dan Dean. Don\'t discredit EWQLSO though, as I\'m sure it\'s going to be a heavy contender.

    I love the sound of the Tuba of VSL, but I would also check out Dan Dean\'s Tuba, or wait for EWQLSO\'s Tuba. Just go with what sound you like really, since it\'s your \'orchestra\' and no one elses.

    Hope that helps (prolly not though!:Ž).

  4. #4

    Re: VSL Question


    I refer you to an earlier thread I posted a few days ago, which has been largely ignored, called \"Kama Sutra Brass.\" I\'m not sure how to post a direct link here, but you\'ll find it on page 2, I believe. I purchased the VSL brass over SAM bones for a new project and, while there are good arguments for both libraries, I regret the decision I made. Details are in the post.

    Best of luck.

  5. #5

    Re: VSL Question

    I\'ll save you the time to go looking for this. Below is my original post.

    I just picked up the VSL brass set this week to work on a mockup job for a film and was appalled to discover that the bones and tuba sustain patches are wholly useless due to the fact that only 2-3 seconds of forte notes were sampled. I\'ve taken up this issue on the VSL forum and heard from Herb that there are plans to loop the library, which is good news but not very helpful in my current situation. What has me scratching my head in disbelief is that apparently the brass players in Vienna were incapable of sustaining their loud notes any longer than 2-3 seconds.

    What amazes me even more is that I was, in fact, surprised by this hole in the library, considering that I\'ve read practically every post on this forum regarding VSL and don\'t recall ever reading about such a serious shortcoming. Has no one truly been stumped by this limitation? I should point out that, even though my work currently revolves around film and TV music, anyone re-creating formal concert literature will also find it impossible to handle certain passages with the current release. Having brass with some staying power isn\'t an esoteric requirement of film composers in a post-Beethoven world.

    My advice to anyone still trying to decide what to buy would be to ask more questions of users and developers. To that end, I would like to know from Nick/and or Doug what the EWQL library is like as far as sustains go, not only with brass but winds as well. Generally, how long are the soft sustains, loud sustains, trills? Are these sections looped? I understand that in the real world brass and wind players cannot sustain indefinitely, aside from circular breathing, but in scores where winds and brass have long sustained notes, it would be extremely helpful to have looped versions of the sections.

    I\'m disappointed that I won\'t be able to use the EWQL library on the mockups–the live sessions start May 19– but I, for one, would prefer that basic issues like useable sustains, looped string tremelos, tuning, etc., be addressed before the library is released rather than repeat the experience I just had, even if that means your release is pushed back. I would like to assume, based on Nick\'s work in film and the very powerful sound I heard in the first demo piece, that these areas have already been addressed, but my last assumption cost me $800.

    Alternately, would you at least inform your customers up front about the holes in the library and how and when you\'ll be releasing updates to correct those. I appreciate your presence on this forum, so if you\'re able to answer these questions publicly, that would be great. Otherwise, we\'ll find out in three weeks.

  6. #6

    Re: VSL Question

    bjean - I asked this on the EWQL section of the forum under: QLSO - Looped Sustains.

  7. #7

    Re: VSL Question

    wow !! i can\'t believe what i am reading . people are making purchases at around $1800 and say they like and at times and even prefer the sound of their other libary\'s that cost a fraction of!! i just got the performance set which i like. but it quickly becomes apparent that you either need to get the cube or something similar. in looking at some of the less expensive alternatives to the cube i starting to have some reservations before spending $1800 for the 1st edition than another grand for the pro-update.
    personally if i spend $2800( full cube) it had in every single way be much better then a product that cost a few hundred bucks.( sam horns and some of the other mentions libs.)
    am i missing something here??

  8. #8

    Re: VSL Question

    yes all true indeed. herb relly did his homework with the VIP pricing . it really works on you! the good thing is VSL is a small company and herb really cares about his product and costumer base. the worst thing in the would would be for some huge corporation to buy vsl and screw it up
    big time i have seen this dozens of times.

  9. #9

    Re: VSL Question

    Originally posted by mike harper:
    wow !! i can\'t believe what i am reading . [...]
    am i missing something here??
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Apart from the fact that you may be comparing apples with pies - let\'s talk about money, as long as you do: just compare those prices on a per-sample basis, and you\'ll know what you\'re missing ;-)

    All the best,

  10. #10

    Re: VSL Question

    glad you choose to use the word MAY- surly i am not comparing a $99 dollar lib to a $1800 lib . i just find it amazing tha some good composers are still using these other sounds to \"compensate\"
    for some things \"missing\" in the 1800 lib.
    maybe thats to hard of a comparison.
    i\'l know soon enough( future cube owner)

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