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Topic: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Los Angeles

    Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    Just curious what you find to be annoying about DP?

    Also, what is better about logic?

    I guess I\'m kinda thinking that logic will have way more support in the future and just end up
    being the focus software for apple. But why should I switch now?

    BTW---- When is this learning curve gonna be over?????.... J/K [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  2. #2

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    I really like DP, and have been working on it for about 7 years...the problem i have is more with MOTU as a company. It seems like there are 5 people working there, and they are all working on hardware...every 6-9 months it seems like motu is rolling out a new firewire audio interface (which are in fact truly great pieces of gear) but they are always late on DP updates, and there never seems to be any info if any software issues have been addressed. Emagic has the support of Apple behind it, and you can count on them having the best Mac software, and hardware integration, support, and innovation. There are times as a DP user, where I wonder if MOTU is going to go OPCODE on me..check out some of the posts at unicornation...I must say though, that MOTU seems to be getting the picture, as more people have jumped ship...I notice on there new update announcements the state the day it will be released...as far as the programs go...I couldnt tell you the diff, as Ive never used Logic...what I hear all the time is..MIDI in Logic is the bomb, but DP wins in ease of audio editing...wither that is a BB cliche. i coulnt tell you...hopefully DP 4.1 which wil be released in 2 weeks will solve any problems i have experienced...if not..Ill definitely be converting.

  3. #3

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    Anyone who has read my sage with DP can ignore this post.

    I love DP. I loved it when it was just Performer.
    It has been my main app for my entire life. Really.

    I switched to logic for just 2 reasons.

    DP will not let you use vsti\'s (even in audio units format) while running on pro tools hardware (dae mode).

    With the upcoming G5, it seems like using soft synths on the main computer has become a reality.
    With REAL amounts of polyphony.

    But I mix entirely in Pro Tools. And I need the DSP cards for eq\'s and such WHILE I am sequencing. That way when its time to mix I am already half way done.

    Logic built the TDM/ESB bridge that allows logic to use vsti\'s while still running in DAE mode.

    Motu will not even support this in 4.1

    But if you are not going to run DP as a PT front end, than I think DP is awesome. I love the program.
    The EXS integration in Logic is excellent and almost worth the learning curve all by itself.

    Maybe Mach 5 will be just as good with DP. I will be recieving my copy on Monday and I will post a review as soon as I can.
    But Mach 5 does not have streaming in this rev...... and I need it...... so exs is still the way to go.

    If you had to pick a sequencer to start from scratch with i would pick logic.
    If you already know DP I would hang with it (if you don\'t need dae support of soft synths).

    I have absolutely nothing bad to say about DP as a program. I miss it very much.

    If Motu builds a DAE/vsti\'s bridge I may come back. (plus mach 5 streaming).

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    New York City

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    You cannot beat DP for working with picture. Truly a thing of beauty. If yopu want an in-depth thread regarding Logic vs. DP, there is a lengthy one at Unicornation.com right now. Check it out.

  5. #5

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    Both programs will get the job done and both have problems. Don\'t be fooled by the \'greener grass\' effect. Dp is fantastic and with 4.1 supporting AU, why switch if you are already using it? For what it is worth, with the help of Danny over at MOTU, we were able to get them to reproduce a major CPU problem when using certain dual processor machines (mostly the mirror door ones). I received word that it will be fixed in 4.1 now. Sometimes a little patience and clarity helps get these issues solved.

    ED, I understand your point. There is a direct email for suggestions if yo didn\'t already do it. I suppose the two machine route is out of the question?


  6. #6

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    J -

    I can\'t really speak about DP since I\'ve never used it, I\'ve only seen others work it it.

    I\'ve been a Logic user for about 5 years, and I\'ve never looked anywhere else.
    Craig just switched from DP to logic, and he is definately digging the switch. You might want to talk to him, since he can probably give you the best pro/con list.


  7. #7

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    I use both - sort of. I bought Logic way back in \'95, when it was 2.x (I remember 2.5 was my first update). I had used Vision for a maybe a couple months at a friend\'s house before the purchase. I was frustrated with Logic for a whole year. I thought I\'d never understand it. I bought the competitive upgrade for DP. I installed it, I tried it... and I tried it... and I tried it... and I hated it. Turned out I knew more about Logic then I thought.

    I was spooked by what everyone called the Learning curve. I felt like I hadn\'t made much progress since the first week i had it. In fact I hadn\'t, because I learned almost everything I needed to know about Logic that first week. It was/is really quite simple. Sure there\'s a ton of stuff in the environment I don\'t know anything about, and there\'s menu functions I couldn\'t tell you what they do if I had to, but I learned all I HAD to know, in no more then a week or two.

    Now I use both because I have to with some people I work with. I hate the MIDI functionality of DP. Logic is SO much easier. The audio functions of DP are easier for editing, and the mixer is a little nicer to look at, but other wise Logic rocks. I often will convert a file from DP to Logic just cause it\'s easier to work in logic, then convert it back.

    Another cool thing about Logic is the new Freeze tracks feature. (I hear DP is doing this, but I\'ve not seen it yet. I\'m still on DP 3 as I haven\'t switched to OSX yet). I have a friend who likes to sequence in Logic, and mix in PT. He decided as an experiement to freeze all his audio tracks in Logic. Then he opened PT and imported the SDII Freeze files as though they were regular tracks. Everything lined up perfectly. He has now sold ALL of his hardware synths except 1 controller, and is doing everything in Logic. He told me when he finishes a track, he Freezes the files, and in less the 5 minutes he\'s ready to mix in PT. I heard some of the stuff and it sounds incredible! I guess PT 6.0 software has a new 32 bit something another that sounds great. Cause I head the file in logic, and then heard it in PT, and it was world\'s better in PT. Just the same raw audio files playing back. So... I think that\'s certainly a reason to look into a Logic/PT system. Just based on my experience.

    I\'ll probably get the DP updgrade, only cause I have to have it to work with some people, but I doubt I\'ll every love DP. (funny enough, I do really like their Audio interfaces though... maybe there\'s a reason they\'re focusing on new Audio I/Os)

  8. #8

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    Originally posted by ed hamilton:
    Thats what I miss most.

    I know motu never intended Chunks to actually be entire songs unto themselves but thats how I (and most others) use them.

    Logic gots no chunks.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">wassa chunk? ignant logic user wants to know... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]


  9. #9

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?


    I almost switched to Logic many years ago, but here\'s a feature it didn\'t have back then and I wonder if it\'s got it now:

    In DP, you can EASILY set up a tempo change with a curve towards a marker,. and easily make a certain bar land on that marker with the tempo change. This was extremely useful (still is) for film and TV. When I looked at logic, most of its tempo change features for film were automatic with little (unlike the rest of the program!) user definable elements or control over it.

    Basically, I couldn\'t change tempos (to hit markers etc) with any where near the ease and flexibility of DP. What\'s it like now?

    Back then, the \"markers\" in Logic drove me nuts whereas DP is a joy. Also back then, the markers window in Logic wouldn\'t let you display real time AND smpte time AND measures all at once: this is SIMPLE in DP and they are all lined up in neat colums.

    What I found was that Logic had a VAST number of extra features, but there were a few DP features it simply couldn\'t do (at the time I checked with Logic experts who verified this).

    Whilst there were only a few Dp features it couldn\'t do, as mentioned, those few features were things I NEEDED it to do, and do on DP many many many times a day.

    So whilst out of date, my advice is to make a note of the features you use all the time and check if the new platform will do those for you.

    Logic was clearly more flexible and probably more powerful even back then, but I just couldn\'t work with it for what I needed to do.

    My question still is, how does Logic\'s tempo change features compare to DP nowadays?
    EG: take a look at DPs simply laid out tempo change window, go through all the features (eg \"calculate\" and \"options\" buttons, then try to do this in Logic. Use also inconjuction with markers windows in both and I\'d love for an up to date comparison, as it was a mess to deal with a few years back.

  10. #10

    Re: Why are you guys ditching DP... or thinking of?

    Oh, I forgot to mention, and actually ANSWER the question that starts this thread: several years back I almost switched to Logic BECAUSE..............

    ........MOTU tech support was almost impossible to reach. Like someone said, it feels like they only have a few people there...no tech support when the ship is going down and the deadline is immovable was intollerable. TECH SUPPORT issues was the ONLY reason I was thinking of switching (and tried to also).

    DP3.0 on Mac OS 9.0.4 was much more stable, so I guess once that happened I haven\'t needed tech support for a long long time. Thank God.

    The one thing I miss from my SHORT time with Logic: the user definable and adjustablegraphic interface. I loved to squash the tracks down VERTICALLY and HORIZONTALLY so I could see the entire 150 bar sequence etc, then rapidly zoom in again and out again etc. Because of this, Logic felt incredible fluid and malleable. DP doesn\'t do this to anywhere near the same extent (the newer sequence window in DP doesn\'t even compare).

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