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Topic: Multiple stops for solo violin

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  1. #1

    Multiple stops for solo violin

    Hello all,
    Does anyone have any advice on which sample makes good sounding double/triple stops for a violin solo? Something ala Pagnini/Red Violin.
    Thanks
    Alex

  2. #2

    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Sorry, I don\'t know how to edit the previous post. I meant Paganini of course.

  3. #3
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    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Originally posted by drdrt:
    Hello all,
    Does anyone have any advice on which sample makes good sounding double/triple stops for a violin solo? Something ala Pagnini/Red Violin.
    Thanks
    Alex
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">It depends on the dynamic you\'re playing at. At lower bow velocites, mp and below, any sustained sample will do, using a brief CC11 (expression) fade out when you release the double stop. (I assume you \'re sequencing and using multiple tracks).

    At higher bow velocities you hear obviuous sustain when you release the double stop following a single note, or the last note of a phrase, on the secondary string. To keep realism you need to use off-the-string samples, e.g. Dan Dean\'s staccato, which gives you a sustain sound at bow lift-off. This restricts you to short notes only, (unless you have release triggered sustain -not yet available), but you can use it in real time.

    If you\'re sequencing, and desparate to have longer notes you can try faking a sustain sound using carefull C11 fadeout (hyperbolic). Or you can try utilising the lift-off sound that many (not all!) long bow samples end in. Making sure the note-on is longer than the sample, put a CC11 fade in at the point where the note is meant to start, then shift the note way back (on roll view) until the lift-off point of the sample reaches back to the point where your note is meant to release. If the CC11 attack sounds too unatural, which it will, you can layer the attack of the a sample (marcato works best for this) on a seperate track, using cc11 for a short crossfade (no more than 0.1s!) Experiment with level etc. -Or in, say, GSEditor you can make an attack only version, by setting Decay1 in EG1 to fade to 0 over 0.5s or so and blah blah blah stop for God\'s sake.

    Hope at least some of this makes useful sense.

  4. #4

    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    No,that\'s a great help. I figured it would take significant fade work to get that sound I just wasn\'t sure how to approach it. Are you familiar with any demos that have been created successfully creating that sound?

  5. #5
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    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Originally posted by drdrt:
    Hello all,
    Does anyone have any advice on which sample makes good sounding double/triple stops for a violin solo? Something ala Pagnini/Red Violin.
    Thanks
    Alex
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Alex,

    Tom Hopkins prepared a short tutorial on how to do double stops which can be viewed here. There\'s also an mp3 example, MIDI file and Logic Environment file. It uses the GOS library but the technique should also apply to solo string libraries.

    A little history of the Red Violin appears in this thread

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6
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    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    I forgot to mention attacks. Where muliple stops come in sequentially you, of course, need fast attacks. DDSS has art files which layers fast staccato on the long bow. These are very useful for double stopping. KHSS has a variety of long bows, some with hard attacks

  7. #7

    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    This is good information, but what about vibrato. I find that in most solo samples the stronger vibrato does not really match when you play double stopped longer notes. The results are not very pleasing. Anyone have any opinions on how to approach that?

  8. #8
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    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Yes, I should have mentioned vibrato. This isn\'t really a problem: eg DDSS has strong vibrato, most samples at similar rates of 170 - 190 ms per cycle. It is a simple matter of shifting the second note of a double stopped pair up to 0.1s forwards or backwards to match the vibrato. (The timing change doesn\'t matter too much. If it does you could re-align the sounds using CC11 and a seperate attack as described in the post above).

    If the double stopped notes are rather long the vibrato may soon get out of phase, in which case it is a simple matter to retrigger the second note on a seperate track, so that you can realign the vibrato, crossfaded with its predecessor using CC11 over NO MORE than 0.1s.

    You don\'t usually get expressivo vibrato with double stopping, but, if matched, it sounds fine with DDSS, as far as I remember. (I have been using a custom violin only, for the last 6mths). KHSS has \"Tame\" samples, but I have not tried it for this.

  9. #9
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    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Er.. Hi,

    I\'ve checked back. It appears I did vibrato alignment for double stops using DDSS after multitrack rendition to audio in samplitude. (That\'s easier \'cos you can see the peaks and troughs to align). More recently I\'ve done this at the midi stage using my own violin, by ear, but adding a temporary tempo change to slow it down. It sounds complicated but the learning curve is short -honest. I might do a demo if I get time, but first I\'m off on vacation with w & 4k

  10. #10

    Re: Multiple stops for solo violin

    Thanks for the advise on the vibrato, I\'ll take a look at it in wavelab to see if I can adjust there. I\'m also using KHSS. Overall I feel they are the best I\'ve heard yet. I think that Sample developers should approach the double stop issue in future versions and upgrades. I\'m a violin player also and hearing the vibrato phase / clash makes my skin crawl. Vibrato is one of the most important features in these samples and double stops are a big issue. Whoever develops samples that don\'t have to be tweeked to play double stops will be one step ahead of the game.

    Michael Duclon

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