• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Topic: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

  1. #1

    Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    I have read some posts about problems using GigaStudio 160 with Logic Audio. I have experienced the same problem (both with Logic Audio Platinum 4.0.4 and 4.2.2), but I think I may have a workaround. At least, the workaround seems to work on my system (although I have not done any extensive testing!)

    It seems there are a few weird things happening between the various Midi drivers.

    Briefly, what I see is as follows: When starting Logic via the sequencer button in GSt, all works fine while playing controllers or editing events. However, as soon as the Logic Sequencer is started in playback mode, previously recorded events do not sound (even though the GigaSt midi loop shows activity on the channel).

    The strange thing is that, even if events are recorded only on Channel 1 of Port 1, the GSt midi indicator will sometimes flash on Port 1, but mostly on Port 4! No sound emerges, even if patches are loaded onto all channels of ports 1 & 4.

    Even stranger; if the sequencer is in playback and a Midi controller is being played simulatenously on the same channel, the playback will not be heard, while the (thru) controller\'s playing will!

    To attempt to solve this problem, I experimented with Hubi\'s loopback driver, which has been known to help sort out some other tough Midi problems. Firstly, one has to obtain and install these drivers (one possible source is the downloads page on www.xgfactory.com ), i.e. http://www.xgfactory.com/downloads/mdlpbk25.zip
    (I suppose that similar drivers such as Midi-Yoke will also be usable).

    The steps in this workaround is as follows:
    1) Install Hubi\'s loopback drivers
    2) Edit win.ini & reboot
    3) Setup Hubi\'s \"cables\"

    A brief explanation follows (as brief as I can make it!)

    Hubi provides the following: 4 ports (LB1 - LB4) which are multiclient ports, both input and output. Anything sent to LB1 as an output port, will appear on LB1 as an input port.

    Logic has a reasonably unique way of dealing with Midi ports. Since Logic opens all ports, strange things will now happen when you try recording. Logic will send events out on LB1 - LB4 which it will then receive again on LB1-LB4, and this will confuse Logic. To stop this, the file win.ini must be edited in your /windows directory.

    * Note that, after installing Hubi\'s driver, you must first reboot, then start Logic Audio and quit it again. Logic then identifies the new midi ports and adds them to the [logic] section in win.ini.

    Now, edit the win.ini file:

    Look for the section that starts with [logic]. It will look something like this:
    LRU2=C:\\Program Files\\Creative\\SBLive\\Media\\Midi\\Symphony.mid
    LRU3=Various Multi Sets v3.2.lso

    This may look somewhat differnent in your system. The important thing is the 4 lines:

    For these 4 lines, change the 1 to a 0, i.e.

    (Now, restart windows).

    This will tell Logic *not* to open these ports as inputs, so Logic will open them only as outputs. Logic will now be able to record / playback as normal.

    Hubi also supplies a set of \"cables\" - a little program which you can use to connect these LB ports to your other Midi ports. A cable is set up by double clicking on the hwmdcabl.exe file. One can then right-click on its bar on the task bar to connect inputs and outputs.

    For example, start hwmdcabl.exe, then right click on it in the task bar at the bottom of your screen. Select \"LB1\" in the Input column (the middle column), and select \"Nemesys MidiOut Port 1\" in the Output (rightmost) column. Anything sent to LB1 will now be sent on to GSt port 1.

    You can now start another instance (just double-click on hwmdcabl.exe again), and connect LB2 to Nemesys Port 2. Two more instances can be used for LB3 to port 3 and LB4 to port 4.

    ( While experimenting with these, note that when you start another instance of the hwdcabl, an error message may pop up saying something like \"port already in use\" Just accept this, since the new instance is trying to open the same ports as the previous instance, and some of the ports concerned - like the Nemesys ports - may not be multiclient. Just right click on the new instance in the task bar, and set the appropriate ports. )

    Even better, you can direcly specify a command line which will do the connections. For this command line, you will need the numbers of the Midi ports, which you can learn by right-clicking as in the previous paragraph.

    The idea would be to make a little batch file with 4 lines such as
    HWMDCABL.exe OUT=7 IN=2
    which will connect LB1 to Giga port 1, LB2 to Giga port 2, etc.

    When you have done experimenting, close all the cables by right-clicking on each and choosing \"close\".

    To use the workaround, do the following (the order is important):

    1) Start Gigastudio (on my system, I *must* start Gigastudio *before* I start any cables, otherwise Gigastudio does not respond to the controllers configured on its inputs! So, first start Gigastudio. No changes need to be made to the GigaSt configuration.

    2) Now start the 4 cables which connect LB1 to Nemesys port 1, LB2 to Nemesys Port 2, etc. These cables must be started and connected *before* Logic is started.

    3) Now start Logic from the sequencer button in GigaSt.

    4) When choosing instruments within Logic, the Nemesys ports will now be grayed out, and you will not be able to select them. This is because these ports are not multiclient, and they have already been opened by each Hubi \"cable.\" Where you would have selected \"Nemesys port 1\", now select \"LB1\" instead, and use LB2 instead of Nemesys port 2, etc.

    During playback, Logic will play events to LB1, which the Hubi cable will then relay to Nemesys port 1. For some weird reason, sound will now result! (Well, at least on my system!)

    I have only tested the system briefly with 2 channels to one port, and with 2 channels to 2 ports, but it seems to work perfectly well. I suppose that using the loopback will slightly increase the CPU load, but at least it is better than nothing!

    // Charl

    [This message has been edited by cc (edited 06-12-2000).]

  2. #2

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    Rivethead, trust me, it works. As soon as I read his message on this thread, I downloaded Hubi\'s Loopback Drive, properly installed it, booted my computer, edited the win.ini, booted up again, then properly assigned the MIDI in/out ports. It is very simple. Just take the instructions step by step.

    Now, my VS 1680(slave), Logic VS(master) and GigaStudio are all in synch!

  3. #3

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    cc and migo,
    Do you notice any significant slowdown with your systems with Hubi? Is the extra CPU load noticeable? I\'m still considering if I should just wait for a more permanent fix to the problem and revert back to GS or use my old Cakewalk in the meantime.

  4. #4

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    I will spend a couple of days setting up MIDI performances on my computer. I will be spending time transferring MIDI from Notator(AtariST) to PC. Can you believe that?

    I don\'t believe that there is any extra CPU load. The way I understand it, the MIDI has been reconfigured.

    It is not difficult to set it up. Make sure you read the the Installation section in the Midlpbk text file that comes with the download. And read the \"edit the win.ini file\" part provided by \"cc\" on this thread.

    I\'ll let you know, tomorrow, whether or not I notice any significant computer slowdown with my system while using Hubi.

  5. #5

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    WHOO HOOOO! CC You The Man! WOrked like a charm. Even found an environment for my QS 6.1!

    Stayed up most of the evening setting up my environments. A multi instrument for each GS Port! Works like a charm! Now, if only I had my Reaktor in, I\'d be jammin!

    Thanks again CC, if you are ever in the Tampa Bay Florida, USA area, look me up! I owe you a beer/soft drink of your choice!

  6. #6

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    Hey CC, I\'m at work now, and will try this at home. If this works, then YOU ARE THE MAN! I have messed with Hubi before, but have always had problems figuring it out.

  7. #7

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    CC and others Can you please help me. No response from Nemesys. Here is the letter I sent them.

    I. GigaStudio Problems/ Symptoms:
    Hope all is well at Nemesys. As for me, I am just a little uneasy because GigaStudio has backpeddled my studio progress. At any rate,
    I am submitting the problems I am having along with my system configuration and an attached Diagnostic Run produced by GigaStudio.
    NOTE: That incorrect information is being reflected in the Diagnostic Info captured by GigaStudio. For example. My C and D drive available space is incorrect. I have also attached a .bmp file showing what my win98 systems tools/\"system information\" application actually shows for my hard drive(s) information.

    Please also note not to condemn my system (e.g. processor, memory, etc) off the bat, as I am running the same exact system for GigaStudio that I was running for Gigasampler (with the exception of adding a new HD for Giga Instruments). This means that I am NOT running DSP NFX, only striving for 64 voices (although I have seen more)--> basically the minimum GigaStudio requirements. You will also note under my PC System Setup that I have included the optimizations that have been done.

    Prob 1:
    1. Under the \"Loaded Instruments\" Tab of the the Port 1 Midi view window it is verified that the \"active note-on\" keys (denoted by blue) become stuck or held down once that respective note from my sequencer songs are played. As more and more keys are played via the sequencer, more notes become forever active (solid blue). Audio output also verifies this (Like, Big Mamma sitting her buttocks on the entire keyboard at once). This alone will eventually cause the system to crash. If I let the sequencer continue playing onto never-never land, I will receive a \"Msg32\" Illegal Operation Error message. The details on the message mention something about a fault occurring at WSTRM32.DLL. The PC then locks up and I get the win98 blue screen. I have to then do a HARD reset. NOTE: when I manually press the keys on my external midi keyboard or even the virtual midi keyboard under the \"loaded instruments\" tab WITHOUT the sequencer playing back, this DOES NOT happen. In this case, as soon as the key is released, the note stops playing and the respective key according the midi keyboard of the \"Loaded Instruments\" tab returns to \"white\" as expected when the key is released.

    Prob 2: Although I have disabled the DSP FX, disabled any midi port linking, and have placed my instruments only on midi port 1 within
    GigaStudio. During sequencer playback, I still see the Ports 2, 3, and 4 randomly flashing red in addition to Port 1 via the Port Monitor of Gigastudio. Once again, when I manually press the keys on my external midi keyboard or even the virtual midi keyboard under the \"loaded instruments\" tab WITHOUT the sequencer playing back, this DOES NOT happen. In this case, only Port 1 will flash red as I play instruments. I went in and made sure my midi mapping settings had my IN2 of my Portman 4X4/S enabled. This is my external keyboard connection. I also tried disabling any DSP connectivity via the DSP Station/Inputs deal. Port Monitor shows ports as not being link as expected though.

    II GigaStudio Settings
    1. Let me 1st emphasize that I am running NO DSP FX.
    2. NO Midi Ports are Linked. ONLY loaded instruments for Port 1 Midi output.
    3. Reduced settings to 64 Voices although I have been able to peak above this in prior settings of GigaStudio
    4. Outputs 1/2, 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 are enabled under the settings/hardware routing tab
    5. Hardware shows \"Event/Echo Darla 24 [0]\" under the settings/hardware routing tab
    6. Under the DSP Station/Inputs... the outputs are set to 1,2 3,4 5,6, 7,8 for channels 1-8.
    7. Midi mapping has portman 4x4/s on the midi inputs and of course nemesys gigastudio outputs for midi.
    8. Memory, Voices, and Peak indicators reflect that system is stable. Of course CPU gets up into the 70% range as Prob 1 occurs described in section I.

    III. PC System Setup::

    Processor: Pentium II 300 MMX (meets GigaStudio\'s minimum req\'s according to your documentation; especially for 64 voices+ NO FX)
    (worked with Gigasampler just fine)

    Memory: 320 MB RAM (same as previously working Gigasampler)

    Hard Drive C: 1 primary master Maxtor (<9ms, 5400 rpm, 10.7 Gig boot-up/ win98 (1st ed) O/S, sequencer S/W and GigaStudio S/W)
    Hard Drive D: 1 secondary master Maxtor (<9ms, 7200 rpm, 30.0 Gig, 512 cache for Giga instruments and soundfonts only!!!)
    Here is my spill about the Hard Disk to NOTE. I DID NOT even have a second hard drive until I purchased GIgaStudio. Under the GigaSampler environment, EVERYTHING ran on my \"C\" drive, the sequencer, Gigasampler, instruments, and all.

    SoundCard #1: Soundblaster PCI512 (I don\'t use this with GigaStudio. Only used for general purpose multimedia/ CD-ROM output)
    SoundCard #2: Darla24. Have been using this for Gigasampler in the past. No problems (GSIF compliant w/new drivers)
    Midi I/F: Midiman Portman 4X4/S (Parallel I/F No problems here in the past. Drum machine get IN/OUT #1,Midi keyboard gets IN/OUT #2,
    and Midi ports 3 and 4 IN/OUT are currently not used. (Total of 4 IN and 4 OUT)

    Miscellaneous Settings: I already did these so we don\'t have to waste time going over these avenues. Some of these optimizations came from the info on the Gigasampler/Studio user\'s forum.
    1. The DMA option is enabled for both drives already.
    2. Disabled Auto Insert Notification for CD-ROM
    3. set DoubleBuffer = 0 in both MSDOS.SYS files (one of these files is also on the giga instrument hard drive)
    4. changed display/video to display cheesy 256 colors rather than 16 or 32-bit (doesn\'t alleviate problems)
    5. vcache is fixed to MinFileCache=81920 and MaxFileCache=81920
    6. write-behind disk caching is disabled
    7. virtual memory is fixed to 300 MB min. and 300 MB max.

    Thanks in advance.

  8. #8

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!

    CC and others,

    By the way, I am using PowerTracks Pro Audio 6.0c as the sequencer.

  9. #9

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!


    I have noticed no slowdown at all, but then I have not really pushed it very far yet.

    However, in days gone by I used to run Hubi on a Pentium 166 MMX to correct timing problems with Midi on a Gravis Ultrasound card. Even in that system I was never aware of any extra CPU load (even though I was running audio simultaneously).

    The fact is, there will be a slight extra overhead, but because it is Midi, will probably be negligible in comparison to all the audio stuff. As a rough indicator, you will probably expend the same resources as you would, had you transmitted the GigaStudio-destined Midi to two separate sets of Midi ports.

    In the worst-case scenario (this is running at midi-choke rate on all 4 ports), the loopback system would only have to copy about 14kB of data per second. Once again, I don\'t really think this compares to the resources that audio uses.


    // Charl

  10. #10

    Re: Workaround for Logic Audio with GigaStudio!


    This sounds to be caused by the same type of problem we are seeing with Logic, except in your case something is going wrong with note-offs, while in our case it is the note-ons. (Sounds like an internal buffer framing error). The same fix should work.

    I have no experience with Powertracks, but do the following:

    Try following the workaround for Logic, with the following exception:

    After installing Hubi, reboot. Then don\'t edit win.ini, but start Powertracks. Look through your Midi configuration settings, if you can specify what ports are to be used as inputs and outputs. The idea is to make sure that LB1-LB4 are used *only* as outputs, and not as inputs (otherwise, anything played out to those ports will loop straight back into the sequencer...)

    As I say, i don\'t know how this works in powertracks, but e.g. cakewalk has a little dialog box where you can highligh all the ports you want in input and output columns.

    While you are at it, you could also remove the Nemesys ports from the midi output list, since they are going to be opened by the Hubi cables. If the sequencer is going to try to open them as well, you may get error messages.

    If powertracks doesn\'t allow this level of configuration, you will have to dig around in win.ini or powertracks config files to try and do the same type of thing we have done for Logic.

    Other than that, follow the workaround instructions, and see what happens. Hubi seems to have a history of sorting out weird midi problems!


    // Charl

Go Back to forum

Tags for this Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts