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Topic: Giga release sample velocity

  1. #1

    Giga release sample velocity

    Hey, I\'ve heard and read here (from Doug and others) that there\'s no velocity for release samples in Giga.

    Does that just mean they don\'t respond to release velocity? Because the level of the release samples is definitely tied to the note-on velocity.

    In other words, have I missed something?

  2. #2

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    I think they were talking about something else, something more complicated than just velocity.

    You can have different velocities in your release triggers in Giga, in the exact same way as you can have different velocities in your key-down samples.

    So a hard pressed sample can have a different release sample attached than a soft pressed one.


  3. #3

    Re: Giga release sample velocity


    And now I\'m more confused about what they were saying!

  4. #4

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    And I believe that you can also set the decay of the release, so that the longer you hold the note, the more the release trigger will be attenuated.

  5. #5

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    I think this is what you\'re talking about: Giga\'s release triggers do NOT respond to the velocity of the release of your finger from a capable midi keyboard (as do, for example, some Roland JV patches).

    They do, however, respond to the original velocity of the note played. So, the downstroke of your finger simultaneously sets the note velocity and predetermines the release velocity. The upstroke of your finger determines only the timing of the release trigger.


  6. #6

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    The way Giga handles releases is generally OK, though it\'d be nice to get the option of having the release triggers\' velocity determined by actual finger-up velocity.

    If the release sample is primarily for the end of a stacatto sound, then the finger-up velocity method is ideal because your finger lifts up quicker during fast stacatto passages, thus the release trigger is more pronounced during such a passage. For longer notes, you either have to remember to lift your fingers up from the keyboard slowly or adjust the patch so that releases are not triggered for longer-held notes. (Incidentally, there should be more flexibility in this adjustment -- currently it\'s just six or so points on a sliding scale from shorter to longer).

    In any case, if Giga could separately recognize note velocity and finger-release velocity, that would allow for separate editing of the two in a sequencer, which might be useful.


  7. #7

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    In Gigastudio the level of a release triggered sample is determined by the note on velocity of the key which triggers it.

    When making release triggered samples, you create a stack of samples each of which has its own velocity region between 0 and 127 (as many splits as Giga\'s dimension architecture allows). To do this you start off using the same procedure as for normal key on triggered samples. Later, you assign them to the release trigger dimension.

    This is one of the definitive differences between Thomas Scarbee\'s RSP 73 Rhodes and every other Rhodes sample on the market. He not only sampled note sustains at several velocities, but he also carefully sampled note-offs at different velocities. If you play at 127 velocity, when you let go you hear a sample of the release of a note which was played at \'fff\' and assigned to a split region which includes 127. If you play between 32 and 64 velocity, the release sample assigned to the region between 32 and 64 plays.

    Just to confuse us, the MIDI specification allows for the transmission of data relating to the velocity with which a key is let go - ie release velocity. This shouldn\'t be mixed up with what we\'ve been talking about so far. True \'Release Velocity\' is about how long it takes for a key to travel from a fully depressed position back up to its state of rest.

    In your average midi keyboard there is a timing circuit for each key which counts how long it takes for that key to move from rest to fully depressed. If the time taken is short, a high velocity value is registered, if the time is long, a low velocity value is registered. This works pretty well because it\'s hard to play an \'fff\' note slowly, and vice versa [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    For a keyboard to be also able to send true \'release velocity\', there would have to be a second timing circuit which counts the time from when the key is first lifted (from its fully depressed position) to when it arrives back at its \'at rest\' position.

    There have been very few keyboards manufactured with this second timing circuit. The Prophet T8 was one of them. I remember setting envelope releases so that letting a chord off slowly caused a long release, and letting it off quickly caused a quick release. It was weird, but I\'m sure some people would have really gotten into it. It requires a completely differentplaying style than most of us are used to.

    Currently, most keyboards simply send a dummy value of \'0\' for the \'note off velocity\' bit. You can check it in your sequencer\'s list editor.

    Anyway, I don\'t think you\'ve missed anything Nick. In Giga, the level of a release sample is controlled by the velocity of its corresponding note on, just as you say. Even if Tascam was to add the ability to respond to the midi spec\'s release velocity bit, most of us don\'t own a keyboard which can send that data.

    Personally, I\'d love to see an increase in the hardware implementation of polyphonic aftertouch. That\'s a function which would just rip for many of us, but it\'s another expensive extra to which most keyboard manufacturers just say \'pass...\'

  8. #8

    Re: Giga release sample velocity


    I can confirm Arch Stanton\'s experience. This is indeed a Gigastudio bug. Quite a pity, since controlling release-triggered samples by note-off velocity would be an effective means to get expressiveness.


  9. #9

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    Thanks all. It sounds like I was on-track: no release velocity response.

    One other thing seems to be going on, at least with the Post Boisenberry Grandioso: the release samples don\'t get triggered if you sustain the key for longer than a given amount of time.

    That doesn\'t happen with all libraries, though - like the VSL\'s +rel horns, for example: you can get the release sample after the initial sound is long gone.

  10. #10

    Re: Giga release sample velocity

    As I posted above, I believe that there is a \"release decay\" setting in Giga.

    If you\'re doing an organ, where the sound doesn\'t decay, you want the release decay set at zero. If you\'re doing a banjo, you want the decay to be pretty steep.

    To me, this is a better solution than measuring the release velocity for most instruments. I generally wouldn\'t want the release velocity to match my key release (except for certain things like staccato up/down bows, which isn\'t so much a release situation as a double-time note).

    What would be really cool would be if Giga measured the amplitude of the sample, and automatically scaled the release to match. That would be awesome for resonant-style releases.

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