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Topic: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

  1. #1

    Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release


    Worra here.
    For an upcoming Bigga Giggas release I\'m about to sample a Hammond L-100 organ, no it\'s not a B-3, but \'A Whiter Shade Of Pale\' was actually done with an L-100...

    I would like to take this forums help an advice in making this THE Hammond gig!

    Here\'s what I had in mind:

    I\'ll sample every note, that makes 44, on 4 different volumes, from clean to distorted. I\'ll do this with both slow/fast Leslie.
    This will make 44*4*2=352 samples/gig.
    My intention are to make a four velocity split controlled by the volumepedal to switch between the different volumes and then control Leslie speed with the modwheel.
    I\'ll do this with 4-5 different settings, so this will be a big one...

    Now to some questions were I really would like your input:

    1. I\'m thinking about leaving the sample unlooped, how lon duration do you think the samples should have so that they wont interfer with normal playin? 20secs? 30 Secs? More? Less?

    2. Do you think that the samples should be in stereo or mono. This baby is going to be big in mono, with stereo samples.......

    3. Do you think I should include samples with the Leslie not spinning at all?

    4. Any suggestion about the setup described above?

    5. Any other comments.

    I really would like your input on this, as I said, this will be THE Hammond samples.


  2. #2

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    Hi Worra,

    Great initiative! Here’s my comment.
    1. Could you create samples with very long loops? For instance loops of 10 seconds. If not, 20 seconds would be my minimum.
    2. Both. I would love to be able to choose between a stereo and a mono version.
    3. Yes, definitely.
    4. Suggestion: could you allow the Leslie to be controlled by a footswitch? It leaves both hands free. I do not know the L100, but from your description I take it has only 44 note keyboard. Could you stretch this a bit using pitch-shifting, so that at least 5 octaves are playable. I know it is not authentic, but it gives me more freedom.
    5. Wouldn’t it be a great idea if you did the B-3 after you have finished the L100? You could use the programming you did for the L100 as basic material and apply it to the samples of the B-3 with some modifications. It would save you some time in the programming department of the project. I for one would love to have a good B-3 for GS.
    Well, I hope this has been useful to you. I wish you the best of luck with the creation of this library. Please keep us posted on the progress you are making.


  3. #3

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    I forgot:
    -You didn\'t mention \'keyclick\'; it would be nice if you could control the presence and the intensity of the presence of keyclick with the mod-wheel.
    -How will you arrange the different drawbar settings? Will you create a separate .gig file for each of these settings? It would be nicer if you would create one big .gig file with different drawbar settings with the ability to trigger the different settings (instruments) with one of the lower keys. If you only need to use 2 or 3 settings you can always unload the instruments you don\'t need in GS.

  4. #4

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    Thanx for your input Jan.

    My intention was to make one gig per drawbar setting, of cource I could combine them into one biiig gig, but that would put a lot of strain in your PC, On the other hand, it would be simple for the user to combine different instruments and the assign the to midi controls, hopefully the next version of the editor allows you to import an complete instrument. Good idea with the key-click, I\'ll keep that in mind. Right now I probably go for the non-looped version, you say that 20 secs are enough, any other opinions on that?

  5. #5

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    Are 20 secs enough...let\'s put it this way: is there a known need for a sample longer then 10 secs...anybody?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Winsted, CT

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Worra:
    Thanx for your input Jan.

    My intention was to make one gig per drawbar setting, of cource I could combine them into one biiig gig, but that would put a lot of strain in your PC

    One big gig is better. We can always split them up, but we can\'t combine them.

    Besides, it is called it a bigaGiga.

  7. #7

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    I think that the \"Symphonic Organ\" has a 20 sec duration, 20 sec sould be enough, 10 probably covers 99% of the needs, but, hey, let\'s make it 20 to cover the rest to.

  8. #8

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    Hi All
    If you created a instrument that had all the variations needed then that would be a really big job . My opinion I would create a workable organ and in the future [like what W tractman did with his piano] if you want to elaberate on more controller variation than you can do so .I would start with the foundation and sample every note once , and for every note ,have different draw bar sounds , selectable via a midi controller function , divide that drawbar range into multiple maybe 8 or so increments. [so now you have 44 times 8 samples ]I would definitely loop the samples , so the notes are continous just like the organ that they came from . Organ samples aren\'t usually very hard to loop as long as you dont have a rotating leslie on them[Ill talk about that in a minute] ,they get a little harder then because you have to match the loop with the leslie vibrato. Ok here comes the compremise ,these are places that you can cut back so this project is done before your 64 . You can leave it mono because the instrument is mono , its only the reflections of the room that makes it stereo and we should be able to create those reflection fine with a effect plug in . You were talking about a few variations of distortion . most of us have effect processors or plug in midi controllable distortion that we can go from totally clean to full distortion and divide that range into 128 increments , controllable Via a varable ft midi controller, and once thats applied to a midi track, capture it as a wave , and theres your distortion . As far as recording goes I would mic it from the leslie while its not turning [that sounds better than line out and you get the speaker/output tube sound from the leslie] and instead of offering 4 different leslie rotations via deminsions [ because a real leslie goes from a stopped position to fast with many very gradial steps , instead of 4 abropt jumps] I would suggest a mod wheel controllable auto panable leslie effect to do the same thing the leslie is doing spining the sound around in a stereo field .The effect would have to be applied in your digial/midi recorder program or wait until giga studio has its own effects .
    I Know that there are people that will say that a leslie simulater effect unit doesn\'t sound as good as a real leslie . but I would rather have a leslie effect that I can truly control with 128 or so increments between off and fast that I can set to the tempo of the song or go from a stop to a fast with all the gradual steps that a real leslie has than a leslie with only 4 abropt variations . Well thats just my opinion I hope its helpful.

  9. #9

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release


    I agree with Kenn159 that there\'s no way to sample a Leslie. For the reason he described: that the thing speeds up, it doesn\'t abruptly jump to the faster speed. And for another reason: even if you sample the organ only at one speed and forget about trying to emulate fast-slow, the notes you play back on your midi keyboard will never be fully in sync with the periodicity of the Leslie\'s tremolo. Each time you strike a note you\'ll be starting a new tremolo cycle, and the cycles of the various notes you\'re playing won\'t be in synch.

    Keep all that in mind.

    Having said that, however, you STILL might get better sounding samples by USING the Leslie, with separate layers for slow and fast settings (even if the resulting Gigasampler instrument won\'t ever really act like a hammond-w/leslie). Much of the real Hammond sound is in that Leslie. If you sample every note, at least the periodicity of each note\'s tremolo will be the same. (As opposed to when you sample, say, every fifth note and pitch them up and down across the keyboard -- then you not only have out-of-synch tremolos, you\'d have four out of five notes with the WRONG tremolo periodicity).

    I think it would be useful to have clean and overdriven samples (those cabinets put out some nice,warm overdrive) rather than rely later on plug-in distortion. I believe you MIGHT be able to make do with only two levels: one clean and one overdriven. If you set up the samples in two dimensions and set up a midi controller to crossfade between the two, that might do the trick (gigasampler manual p. 134 for crossfade layers).

    Also, i agree with the above on paying consideration to the click sound.

    As to your specific questions...
    1. Looping the samples would yield a much more manageable Giga instrument, and allow for infinite sustain. If you\'re careful with the looping, it shouldn\'t compromise the sound, even with spinning leslie. (you\'re not sampling a cathedral ambience, as with a pipe organ). Could be a lot of work, though, to do the looping.

    2. If you decide to go ahead with the spinning Leslie, you should DEFINITELY use stereo. Otherwise, mono ok.

    3. And yes, include samples with Leslie not spinning at all.

    BTW, I have an acquaintance with two B3s and a set of Leslies, which I was going to sample at some point. Maybe I\'ll wait now and see how your project turns out. The thing with Hammond sounds is the more, the better. You can always layer them.


  10. #10

    Re: Advice on upcomingBigga Giggas Hammond release

    One more note related to this topic . I haven\'t done any sampling on giga sampler yet , only on my emu e-64 and other samplers that I have had . But A great way to acheive the key click with out extra seperate samples of the key click sound is to sample all the notes with the key click included , then asign sample start point to velocity ,which means that when you hit the note hard from the keyboard the velocity will trigger the whole sample from the beginning with the key click and all and as you hit the note softer from the keyboard it will move the sample start point forward beyond the click . that way you dont need several samples .The emu has that feature I
    hope giga sampler does.
    As far as the issue that distortion sounds better from a tube leslie than a effect unit or plug in , If you omited the distortion we could always run the organ through are favorate tube guitar amp

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