• Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Topic: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    Wow.

    I am so happy - not only did I learn today that I *might* NOT need Rotator Cuff surgery (I'm primarily a guitarist - YEAH!) but I believe I have reached a critical stage of learning - I believe I have come to realize and understand what I don't know. It is humbling to realize that, although I've *used* MIDI in Sonar for quite a while (version 3 to 8), I know nothing - ok - maybe more nothing, but nothing like you guys. However, it really wasn't until purchasing GPO in November that I had ever worked *extensively* with CC data, for instance. Such an rude awakening. Thanks to Randy, SysExJohn, and GRB53.

    I'll cut to the chase - Randy, or any of you other MIDI cowboys, are the skills you display a result of trial and error/OJT, just RTFM, or can you recommend any specific MIDI tutorial/lessons/websites/books that deal with applying said knowledge? You know, do this to this and you will hear this? I know the Sonar Manual contains roughly 80+pages of MIDI-related info, but doesn't go indepth midi-wise, just what Sonar features are.

    I know competency and expertise cannot be purchased, or downloaded. But can you recommend any tools or places of knowledge where one might begin?

    Dono
    Baja Oklahoma

  2. #2

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    Quote Originally Posted by donplee View Post
    Wow.

    I am so happy - not only did I learn today that I *might* NOT need Rotator Cuff surgery (I'm primarily a guitarist - YEAH!) but I believe I have reached a critical stage of learning - I believe I have come to realize and understand what I don't know. It is humbling to realize that, although I've *used* MIDI in Sonar for quite a while (version 3 to 8), I know nothing - ok - maybe more nothing, but nothing like you guys. However, it really wasn't until purchasing GPO in November that I had ever worked *extensively* with CC data, for instance. Such an rude awakening. Thanks to Randy, SysExJohn, and GRB53.

    I'll cut to the chase - Randy, or any of you other MIDI cowboys, are the skills you display a result of trial and error/OJT, just RTFM, or can you recommend any specific MIDI tutorial/lessons/websites/books that deal with applying said knowledge? You know, do this to this and you will hear this? I know the Sonar Manual contains roughly 80+pages of MIDI-related info, but doesn't go indepth midi-wise, just what Sonar features are.

    I know competency and expertise cannot be purchased, or downloaded. But can you recommend any tools or places of knowledge where one might begin?

    Dono
    Baja Oklahoma
    Congrats on the positive prognosis! Hold good thoughts that it will remain like that.

    MIDI - Whatever I know is from a combination of hands on trial-and-error, and reading. I started using MIDI back in the '80's when it was much more difficult to learn and work with. I loved those hardware synth, hardware sequencer days - but once I finally made the computer plunge (not to terribly many years ago)-- I realized MIDI was finally working the way I wanted it to.

    Books - Almost all from the library. I'd just check out whatever I could find, then sit and experiment. Now I'm still learning, forever a student is the way to be.

    You want some specific texts that say "do this and you get this"-- Most things you'll find are referencing generic things so the info can be applied as universally as possible. And a lot of what you might still find in your library is dated - those books get outmoded super fast. If you find books with charts and charts of complicated MIDI code--you really don't need to wade through that stuff.

    But really experimenting on your own is the best way to learn most things. You want to know what to do to get a certain result--That's something that ARIA excels at. When you go to the Controls window for an instrument, everything that can possibly control it is not only listed, but there are knobs for you to audition what the effect is. I'm looking at one right now "AirNs"--well, that's air noise, and I can control it with CC12 to get more breath in me winds if I want. Length knob, CC21--that's a good one for making some passages more legato or choppier, depending on where the knob's set.

    SO--the answer is a bit vague, because I don't think you'll find The Book That Explains It All. There are good books, probably a lot of newer ones I'm not aware of. Get what you can from the library, but most of all, spend time just poking at knobs on all kinds of synths, looking up all that stuff in the Help files of your software---aaaaand, eventually you'll be King Midi, and you can make Me a video tute that tells me a few things.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    I don't take time to experiment. Do this I must. You're right. Learning to play a complicated lead solo on guitar takes hours of practice - and I know that instrument. I've just come to the realization I don't know MIDI very well - but I'll quit belaboring that point :-)

    Thanks again. Later. I'm heading to the "Cave".

    Dono

  4. #4

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    Quote Originally Posted by donplee View Post
    I don't take time to experiment. Do this I must. You're right...
    Good! I'm glad you agree. Honestly, I'd have to say that the vast majority of what I know crystallized for me from hours on end of trying things. I'd see in a book "Use MIDI Controller #11 for expressive volume control"---ok, but it didn't tell me why that's different from using CC7 volume control. - So after trying them both, it finally sunk in what the difference was.

    I go so far back with the home studio thing as to have used 4 track cassette tapes. That was The thing back in the '80's, to actually emulate what had been the state of the art multi-tracking capability of studios in the '60's, like the famous Abbey Road. I went through four 4-track decks before I moved on to computers. Learned how to bounce tracks together, map out a session to make the most out of those 4 tracks, and so on.

    One MAJOR lesson I learned from that period is that bass frequencies build up like crazy when you're dealing with multi-tracked recordings. The situation was more pronounced in the analog world of tape, but the basic theory is still the same in the digital world. We layer all these sounds that sound great in solo, but which have a lot of bass frequency content. We add them together in a mix and we get--the proverbial Mush.--

    The solution there is to assiduously attenuate the bass frequencies in our tracks. Some people go to great lengths to make a science of it, more power to them--I don't. I just know that I GOtta grab that "bass knob" and turn the bass down in almost every track. That actually means using a bass roll-off curve in an EQ plug-in. --I just know that I'd rather have my mixes sound "thin" than "muddy"--

    So, there's a bit of what I learned from a combination of reading about it and seeing for myself from actual experimenting and experience.

    It's MUCH easier nowadays than back back in the stone-age of synths, of MIDI, and of digital audio. Once someone learns how to record anything in a recording program, the complete neophyte can make a pretty good sounding track. So much is just There for you nowadays.

    And so, contrary to what you might think I'd say, I advocate simply learning the basics for getting some decent sounding tracks. I don't want to become an engineer, do you? Just learn what you need and trust the rest to the fancy programs you pay money for. 8-)

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    +1 to both of Randy's posts.

    My own take on it, coming from a different much more technical background (I used to write MIDI programs back on my old Atari 520 to control a Yamaha HS6 organ I once owned), was to read the GPO manual very carefully, especially the section on which MIDI controllers did what. I printed the manual so I could read it away from the computer.

    On most MIDI hardware what controls note dynamics is velocity, for every instrument. It was a revelation to find expression controlling it for wind, brass and strings (plus organ etc.) on GPO. Where velocity now controlled attack. I already was using channel volume to set comparative track levels so that was the same. I don't like using cc#1 for expression, although it makes perfect sense to map it to the modulation wheel which gives very fine control. My own preference is to use cc#11 although you can use cc#2 the wind controller. As I use an EWI occasionally too into a VL70m I reserve that controller for that function.

    In short I laid down some simple melody lines and counterpoint and then sat and played with the various controls to see what they did.

    Essentially it's the same as learning the guitar, you've got to know your instrument before you can get the best out of it. Time spent doodling, playing close or far from the bridge, the sound of the same note on different strings, all that, is the equivalent of experimenting with the controllers in GPO.

    Spend some time listening, really listening to e.g how a violin is played and try to emulate it. Try other instruments and learn them too. Then see how much you can break "the rules" to get interesting variations. And so on.

    Think of GPO and IO as another musical instrument that you have to learn, read the manual and play on and with each instrument experimenting with the available controllers. Gradually it comes together, but it takes a little time.

    Certainly Randy's video series have given me some fresh ideas to experiment with too.
    SXJohn.

  6. #6

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    A big YES to all the replys!
    I'll add in my 2 cents worth.

    (NOTE: For me, I've discovered that too much information at a single time is just overload. Reading a whole book (on midi for example) just puts me into overload mode. I need to concentrate on a small subset and master it before moving on. For example in my much earlier years I stayed with a single film/developer process for a year before I really understood its limits and potential)

    Specifically with Garritan instruments here's how I "found my way"

    First I had to really get comfortable with my DAW (Original sonar 1 now Sonar X1 expanded) and how to draw/manipulate CC information into a track

    I started with one track and one Garritan instrument (GPO clarinet I think) and one CC# (11=Expression)

    I spent about 2 maybe 3 hours inserting/changing/modifying/adjusting and listening after each change to hear how exactly how that change in cc#11 impacted what I heard (and to learn my DAWS idiosyncrasies).

    I then tried another instrument to hear if I could translate my concepts of using CC#11 to another instrument.

    I did not stop until I had CC#11 down pretty cold and really knew Sonar's use of controller data.

    I then moved on to try different controller types and instruments either out of a desire to broaden my knowledge or as necessary to get a specific sound I wanted.

    In short understand your learning style (Visual/hands on/written word/trial and error-whatever)
    Transfer that style to a small set of DAW/midi questions
    Stay with it until you've really mastered its potential.
    Move on to another small learning experiment.

    Fred

  7. #7
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Chandler, Arizona
    Posts
    4,044

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    Really good info in this thread!

    I learned quite a bit by experimenting and reading just like Randy over the years. I also started with a 4 track.

    I've read quite a few articles by Craig Anderton over the years! He has a couple Sonar books that were written just last year.

    Also, Scott Garrigus usually releases some nice books for Sonar with each release.

    BTW, I gave Craig a demo of IO at NAMM and he was quite impressed!

    Jim

  8. #8

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn View Post
    ...

    BTW, I gave Craig a demo of IO at NAMM and he was quite impressed!

    Jim
    This really is a great thread - We're getting more of these juicy, info filled threads going again, and that's the greatest.

    NICE, Jim, that Anderton was impressed with IO at NAMM! I always knew he was a smart man. 8-)

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: What I have come to learn from working with GPO and watching the IO video series

    I learnt most of what I know just by being on this forum. I started out with Finale and GPO4, which was my first library. I was blown away.

    The members of this forum and their feedback are what spurred me on and inspired me to keep composing. Evermore increasing the quality of my musical output in both style and sound quality. So much so that I ended up with licensing opportunities, film score jobs, 2 albums, and there is more on the way.

    So I say this to everyone wanting to learn and compose - stick around - it's worth it.
    Website:
    www.grahamplowman.com
    YouTube Music:
    My Channel
    Twitter:
    @GPComposer
    Facebook:
    Facebook

Go Back to forum

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •