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Topic: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

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  1. #1

    Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Hope this is the proper place for this, I did not see a separate category for IO (perhaps there needs to be one?) I'm new to this stuff but I'm smart, a quick learner and computer savvy. I'm using Dell P17 I-7 8GB with dual 750GB 7200 rpm drives (2nd one for sounds and recording), Win7 64 bit, newest update Studio One v2 64 bit, M-Audio Fasttrack C600 64 bit, M-Audio Axiom 49, Komplete8, and now IO with newest Aria player update. I have questions.

    (1) I notice in Randys' video "Blast Off with IO..." he accesses IO from "program files x86" initially. Mine is installed in "program files" (for 64 bit I believe), it works but I have some issues (likely related to my newbie ignorance level I confess). Is my install location correct for my system?

    (2) IO installed the Aria Player in 2 locations, in a new different VST folder than my Komplete one (where I have both a VST32 and a VST64 folder as Studio One v2 recommended) one Aria VST set is at: C:Program files/VST Plugins/Garritan/ with the 4 Aria Player .dll's and another is at in C:Program files/Garritan/Aria Player/VST. Is this also correct/OK to have multiple VST folders? Are the IO VST files 32 bit or 64 bit?

    (3) Which Aria Player should I always use? I assume only the 64 bit ones but which one of those (multi or not)? What is the difference? There is no info on this anywhere.

    (4) In Studio One I can create a track with Aria Player, but I only have 2 sound categories (folders): Instant Orchestra> "Combos and FX" and "Moods" which open to many cool named sound combinations like "Becoming Grand" (which will not function at all for some reason) and "Big" and many others which all do function. However, on Randy's video at 2:05 he has completely different categories and neither of those 2 showing. Video shows: Instant Orchestra > Blending Textures + Brass Patches + Choir Patches + many others but not my 2 categories at all. I can find those names in C: Program Files/Garritan/Instant Orchestra/Instruments/ and I have set Studio One to "see" those in "locations", but all I can access is the original 2 categories. What am I doing wrong? And shouldn't those sound files (.sfz) be on my second drive (D:)? I do have a folder on D: called "Garritan Instant Orchestra Samples" which contains folders names like "Brassy" and Choiry" and "Stringy" with .audio files. Which I can't directly load either but Aria seems to use as parts of the combinations in "Combos and FX" and "Moods" that I can load.

    You know, someone could make good money with a pay as you go one on one specific diagnostic support session. I have seen a distinct lack of beginner info from all pro audio software companies and it can be very frustrating no matter how smart the user is. I gave up on ProTools9 and switched to Studio One v2 (much better/easier IMHO) Does not Garritan have any one on one support?

    There's more, but this is all for now. Hope it's not too much already for 'ya.

    Thanks very much in advance.

    Rick in KC

  2. #2

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Hi, Rick - I've sent the URL for your thread to one of the IO developers, because he'll be able to answer you more thoroughly than I can.

    I want to answer a few things though - using quotes from your post:


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    ...(1) I notice in Randys' video "Blast Off with IO..." he accesses IO from "program files x86" initially. Mine is installed in "program files" (for 64 bit I believe)...
    That's the right location for all of the Garritan Libraries, in "Program Files." I'm on a 64 bit computer, but I'm still in the habit of using the 32 bit version of Sonar because too many plug-ins I like to use either aren't available or don't work in the 64 bit version. So, in the tute, Sonar 32 bit is open and the 32 bit versions of Aria are what I'm using.

    In the two locations I have for Sonar, in Program Files and Program Files x86, there are VST folders inside the Sonar program files. The 32 bit plug-ins are in x86, and the 64 bit plug-ins are in the VST folder for the 64 bit Sonar in Program Files.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    (2) IO installed the Aria Player in 2 locations, in a new different VST folder than my Komplete one (where I have both a VST32 and a VST64 folder as Studio One v2 recommended) one Aria VST set is at: C:Program files/VST Plugins/Garritan/ with the 4 Aria Player .dll's and another is at in C:Program files/Garritan/Aria Player/VST. Is this also correct/OK to have multiple VST folders? Are the IO VST files 32 bit or 64 bit?
    You have a choice of where to install .dll files during installation. To avoid confusion, I always have all my VSTs installed in the Sonar VST folders, as described above. And it's the Aria VSTs to be concerned about since that's the soft synth you open, and then you open IO inside Aria. And, as said above, there's a 32 bit Aria and a 64 bit Aria.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    (3) Which Aria Player should I always use? I assume only the 64 bit ones but which one of those (multi or not)? What is the difference?...
    If you're using the 64 bit version of Studio One, then you need to open the 64 bit Aria. Use the multi-out .dll file because it has 16 stereo outs which you connect to audio tracks in Studio One. The other version has one audio out intended more for notation users.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    (4) In Studio One I can create a track with Aria Player, but I only have 2 sound categories (folders): Instant Orchestra> "Combos and FX" and "Moods" which open to many cool named sound combinations like "Becoming Grand" (which will not function at all for some reason) and "Big" and many others which all do function. However, on Randy's video at 2:05 he has completely different categories and neither of those 2 showing. Video shows: Instant Orchestra > Blending Textures + Brass Patches + Choir Patches + many others but not my 2 categories at all. I can find those names in C: Program Files/Garritan/Instant Orchestra/Instruments/ and I have set Studio One to "see" those in "locations", but all I can access is the original 2 categories. What am I doing wrong? And shouldn't those sound files (.sfz) be on my second drive (D? I do have a folder on D: called "Garritan Instant Orchestra Samples" which contains folders names like "Brassy" and Choiry" and "Stringy" with .audio files. Which I can't directly load either but Aria seems to use as parts of the combinations in "Combos and FX" and "Moods" that I can load.
    You're confusing Ensembles and instruments. The very upper left corner is labeled Ensemble - Use the loading window below the text to load Ensembles, which are combinations of instruments. You should have three categories there, Combos and FX, Instant Gratification, and Moods.

    But it's in the 16 slots below that, all defaulting to "Empty," where you access the instruments in IO. There you'll find 11 categories of instruments, and each has a long list of available instruments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    ...Does not Garritan have any one on one support?...
    Yes, through the Garritan Store, you can contact support to resolve technical problems:

    http://www.garritan.com/store

    --and of course you can see help is also available here at the Forum.

    Randy

  3. #3
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    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    I only have one VSTplugin folder under the Program Files folder. On my system it's C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins. My OS is Windows 7 x64. The 32 bit and 64 bit plugins will work fine in the one folder. I delete the 32 bit ARIA plugins that I never use to keep the plugin menu cleaner. I only use the 64 bit version of ARIA.

    I find having the one Vstplugin folder much easier for remembering where my plugins go.

    Jim

  4. #4

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Randy,

    Thanks very much for your fast and informative info. Everything was very conscise and helpful.

    I reiterate my opinion that pro audio developers need to realize that beginners (we are all beginners at some point) are very often left high and dry on required info, turning our initial excitement and enthusiasm into "info roadblock frustration". Info like specific hardware and specific soundcard optimum settings (buffers,etc). There's only a few really commonly used soundcards, let's see specific steps A-B-C... exact setup info for beginners. Same with specific info using with the several primary DAW's, specific info like ideal install locations, settings, etc. (and please include Studio One, it is now a major player). Developers are some of the smartest people on the planet, and they know their products from top to bottom, but they still miss this concept that beginners cannot get past info roadblocks that may seem the simplest of insignificant basics to developers. Utilize some beta tester beginners (they'll do it for free!) and deal with their specific issues and compile exact step by step solutions. We're talking just a few more pages of specific info in the manual or .pdf. It would sell more product. I resisted buying ProTools (obviously a very fine mature product that requires some complexity) for that very reason; I finally did and my fears were confirmed, it was unneccesarily complex by design and impervious to self taught beginner use; I'd go 30 minutes before I was stopped with an all day lack of info issue. Over and over again. Frustrating. The ProTools forums seemed to sometimes be answered with condescention and arrogance from "experts" when beginners asked questions. Answers like "Look in the manual" and "just reset the bit rate and buffers" are not always informative or helpful to beginners.

    Thanks for listening to all that, needed to be said. I assure you that I am one of hundreds that share this opinion.

    One issue, Randy. I do not seem to have "Instant Gratification" as one of my 3 ensemble categories, but I can't double check again right now. If so, could this be an install error? I will experiment with IO further later today.

    Beautiful music in your IO demos, certainly influenced my purchase decision. This software is finally accomplishing what I expected but did not find to be reality in other software (like the old Gigastudio). Without a ridiculous $1000 or whatever price.

    Thanks again.

    Rick

  5. #5

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Hayden,

    Thanks to you as well. This forum seems to be much more "civil" and helpful than some others. I do realize that it's the individuals participating that makes or breaks success, so kudos, guys.

    Studio One can use both 32 bit and/or 64 bit VST's. They recommended the separated VST 32 and VST 64 folders (or was it Komplete that recommended that? Now I'm not sure, one of those companies said to separate them) Anyway, how do I know which IO VST's are 32 and which are 64? Since my entire system is 64 bit capable, can I assume I don't need any 32 bit VST's at all? (I do still have ProTools though, it's still stuck on 32 bit, but after using Studio One I doubt I'll ever go back, Protools= navigate and click through 7 layers of sometimes illogical menus vs. Studio One = single drag and drop or just a couple of clicks for same thing and stuff makes more sense).

    Can I simply cut/paste all my vst's into a single vst folder and re-specify locations in Studio One (and Aria too?) or is it not that simple and requires a total reinstall of everything? My VST's are all over the place now.

    Rick

  6. #6

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Leaving here soon, Rick--Some quick replies:

    I noticed you don't have "Instant Gratification" listed in your Ensembles. I don't know why--there's an error there. But you've found now how to load regular instruments in the 16 slots - right?

    I have a 64 bit machine too, but as I said earlier, I have both 32 and 64 bit versions of Sonar installed. The only thing that makes sense to do with Sonar is to have 32 bit VSTs in the VST folder for 32 bit Sonar, 64 bit VSTs in the 64 bit Sonar - otherwise things are a mess and confusing.

    The 64 bit version of Aria has "_64.dll" at the end of its name.

    You can place the .dlls where they should be, then re-scan so your host can find them.

    Gotta go!--Later.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Yes, I can load regular instruments, thanks. I am definately missing the "Instant Gratification" category, but I do have a single ensemble item named that within "Combos and FX".

    I also have an issue with occasional volume fluctuation while playing, it's a steady speed approx 240hz tremolo which suddenly appears where it was not before. I'm wondering if any of the various settings in my M-Audio C600 sound card or Studio One (device block size, internal block size, allocations,etc) or in Aria (Max Engine Ram Allocation, Inst. Disk Pre-caching, instrument polyphony, etc) or anywhere else can affect that as I've never been clear on optimum settings for just about any of the hardware or software variables. It doesn't seem to happen playing kontakt5 sounds though, so it seems Aria related. Any ideas? And, again, if the missing "Instant Gratification" category truly indicates an installation error, should I be thinking reinstall?

    Any info on using Aria/IO with Studio One v2 64 and M-Audio C600 soundcard, I'd like to know what various settings work best, perhaps those settings are universal among sound cards.

    Thanks.
    Rick

  8. #8

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    Yes, I can load regular instruments, thanks. I am definitely missing the "Instant Gratification" category, but I do have a single ensemble item named that within "Combos and FX".

    I also have an issue with occasional volume fluctuation while playing, it's a steady speed approx 240hz tremolo which suddenly appears where it was not before....

    Any info on using Aria/IO with Studio One v2 64 and M-Audio C600 soundcard, I'd like to know what various settings work best, perhaps those settings are universal among sound cards.

    Thanks.
    Rick
    Hi, Rick - You made me look more closely. Things can be a bit confusing because I was on the Beta testing team, and tried out multiple versions of IO before it was released. Those of us on the team should be ending up with the same version of IO which is publicly released - but your thread here makes it seem like what I have might be a version which isn't quite the final, and that it has several errors in it.

    What I have in a separate Ensemble category, called "Instant Gratification" turns out to be a list of patches which are duplicates of various patches in the "Combos and FX" category. So it would appear that what you're seeing is what you should have - two categories for Ensembles - "Combos and FX" and "Moods." Confusing enough? If you have patches in "Combos" called "Becoming Grand" "Soft to Loud Orch"--then you have everything. The list is longer, but if you have those two, plus a patch called "Instant Gratification"--then that seems correct. You see? This category listing I'm seeing shouldn't be there since it's just all duplicates of patches in "Combos"--and I didn't notice that before tonight!

    EDIT: I've erased a paragraph here where I talked about AfterTouch controlling Vibrato. That was an unhelpful, confusing tangent.

    I have no info or experience with using Aria with Studio One v2 64 or the M-Audio C600 soundcard.

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Thanks, Randy.

    It is a tremolo, which I define as a steady repeating volume fluctuation, and I can induce tremolo with aftertouch on certain sounds, but I still think something is amiss because sometimes, once it intitially appears the tremolo (definately not a vibrato) will not go away even after waiting a few seconds (no key presses) for the sound and it's reverb to completely "clear"; the tremolo then is still present on very light keypress on sounds that it was not initially there before with no aftertouch sent (my M-Audio Axion 49 keyboard displays on it's LED when aftertouch is sent and how much so I can tell). I have to then empty and reload the sound to stop it. Not sure, but it seems to be induced by lots of simultaneous notes instead of aftertouch. But, again, once it happens, it will sometimes persist using only a single lightly pressed note. It is not modwheel affected. Is there an IO developer that can address this by any chance?

    That's why I still wonder if any of my software/hardware settings can influence such a malfunction, since I don't know where else to "sleuth". I'm sure all the various settings are vitally important but I can't seem to get specific info on hardly any setting so it's all guesswork and trial and error.

    What are all your specific settings in Aria settings window (ie: Max Engine Ram Allocation, Inst. Disk Pre-caching, and instrument polyphony? How about your soundcard buffer settings, etc. I know it's a different soundcard but it gives me comparative info that may (or may not ) be useful. May be barking up the wrong tree, just trying to eliminate concern over unknown variables. This may not have anything to do with IO/Aria but, as I said, it does not occur using a Kontakt5 sound in the same DAW(Studio One) in the same song in a different solo track.

    Anyone (developer, users, anyone) out there want to volunteer their personal hardware/software settings in Aria, soundcard, DAW, etc?

    It would be great if you were using a M-Audio C600 soundcard and Studio One like me but even if not, this info could be very helpful to me and many others who may have similar questions no matter what system they use.

    Might even be useful to have a separate thread with individuals' variable settings for various different hardware/software setups using Aria (?)

    Thanks for your help! Especially you, Randy. I know this takes much time and effort and it is much appreciated.

    Rick in KC

  10. #10

    Re: Instant Orchestra setup/install questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick in KC View Post
    Thanks, Randy.

    It is a tremolo, which I define as a steady repeating volume fluctuation, and I can induce tremolo with aftertouch on certain sounds, but I still think something is amiss because sometimes, once it intitially appears the tremolo (definately not a vibrato) will not go away even after waiting a few seconds (no key presses) for the sound and it's reverb to completely "clear"; the tremolo then is still present on very light keypress on sounds that it was not initially there...
    Rick! I'm sorry- I was Brain Dead last night when I replied. I had just come home from a very long day and I was exhausted, peeked at the Forum, rattled off my last reply to you-- and there I was talking about Vibrato instead of Tremolo. Sheesh. - I didn't realize I was That exhausted. Sorry!

    AfterTouch controls Vibrato--not Tremolo. I'll edit my earlier post since it's wrong info. argh.

    What you're describing is totally mysterious to me, and I have no idea what the cause is.

    I'll send the URL for this thread to one of the developers so they have a chance to see it. Meanwhile, you do need to go to the Garritan Store site and use the Contact Support form:

    http://www.garritan.com/store/support/contact/

    A data base for individual software programs, and for specific hardware interfaces would ideally be great - there's just such a myriad of possible combinations, it's hard to picture how that info would be gathered and accurately posted. In the past, with the original version of GPO, there were tutorials written for each of the major DAW software programs - Cubase, Sonar, etc, but I know they still weren't able to cover all the possible variables. --I'm just thinking out loud - it's kind of boggling to think of who would write all those tutes, how they'd be checked and monitored etc.

    Your problems are unusual, and there has to be a way to resolve them, but it's very possible they're unique, and of the sort that would be impossible to address in a universal way, i.e. "The persistent Tremolo issue"--

    Rick, we need input from a developer as you said - Hopefully we can get that info to you pronto!

    And again--SORRY about my bogus reply from last night.

    Randy

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