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Topic: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

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  1. #1

    Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    I noticed that demo examples from Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in demo examples from Finale 2012 trial version. If finale is using music library from Garritan why they sound so differently?

  2. #2

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Probably because the GPO4 demos are likely to be "played in," i.e. sequenced from a live performance, then edited in a sequencer, whereas the Finale demos are likely to be realized straight from the notation. I don't think you can reasonably expect a Finale demo to sound human, regardless of whether they call it "human playback."
    Dan Powers
    www.danielpowers.info

    "It's easier to be a composer than it is to compose."
    --Ray Luke (1928-2010)

  3. #3

    Smile Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by danpowers View Post
    Probably because the GPO4 demos are likely to be "played in," i.e. sequenced from a live performance, then edited in a sequencer, whereas the Finale demos are likely to be realized straight from the notation. I don't think you can reasonably expect a Finale demo to sound human, regardless of whether they call it "human playback."
    Hi Dan,

    I can't say I agree with you on this. Finale, or most notation programs, allows you to tweak every single note if you so wish to adjust tempo and other parameters. I have no difficulty accepting a sequencer might be more easy to use in terms of perfecting some aspects of a rendition but 'playing in' is not pre-requisite. Ease of use, can actually be a disadvantage if it encourages a mechanical approach. Anyone using Finale has to spend hours tweaking - but that's what it takes regardless of whether you're using notation or a sequencer. There are no short cuts. Every phrase and sometimes every note has to be crafted so the method of entry is of little relevance in my view. But I can think of several reasons why playing in isn't always a good thing.

    A keyboard is generally the mode of live entry most people will use and I suspect too many people think 'keyboard' when doing so. Fine if it's piano music but I'm not sure this is helpful when dealing with strings or woodwind, the phrasing of which is quite different. Without doubt, many compositions end up sounding like keyboard music although that's not specifically what is being discussed here.

    I hope this won't set off another sequencer versus notation debate because both have their pros and cons! I'm primarily challenging the point that playing-in is what makes the difference.

    Best regards,

    Graham

    www.soundclick.com/grahamkeitch

  4. #4

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1211 View Post
    I noticed that demo examples from Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in demo examples from Finale 2012 trial version. If finale is using music library from Garritan why they sound so differently?
    Hi, Alex - I haven't heard the Finale demos, but Dan is correct that most of the GPO demos you've heard were played, and it's much easier to get the most organic, natural sound that way.

    People who manage to make notated music sound musical coming straight from Finale, Sibelius, etc, are very talented, experienced, and taking great pains to make the playback as good as possible. The average rendering from a notation program always sounds more stilted than a recording made by a musician using music recording software.

    Finale uses other instrument sounds rather than just Garritan. Do make sure that what you're hearing are GPO Finale demos.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Alex has already asked and been answered regarding this question, on the Finale forum.

    He's comparing the Garritan Instruments for Finale with the full version of Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.

    There is no reason to bring up the DAW vs Notation issue. It has nothing to do with it.

    The demos used by MakeMusic use very raw notation files, with absolutely none of the minor tweaks a normal Finale user might resort to to get good playback. They are basically "out of the box" settings, with straightforward notation files.

    And add to that, they use a reduced sample set of GPO, the one included for free with Finale.

  6. #6

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy View Post
    Alex has already asked and been answered regarding this question, on the Finale forum.

    He's comparing the Garritan Instruments for Finale with the full version of Garritan Personal Orchestra 4.

    There is no reason to bring up the DAW vs Notation issue. It has nothing to do with it.

    The demos used by MakeMusic use very raw notation files, with absolutely none of the minor tweaks a normal Finale user might resort to to get good playback. They are basically "out of the box" settings, with straightforward notation files.

    And add to that, they use a reduced sample set of GPO, the one included for free with Finale.
    Thanks for that, Michel.

    With info from both the Finale Forum and this one, you have your answer, Alex. Both Finale and Sibelius have reduced sample sets from Garritan, but the owners of the full GPO can use it in their notation programs.

    Couple that with Michel's info that those Finale demos are raw, and straight out of the box, then naturally there are differences between what you hear there and in the GPO demos. The latter have been produced, and aren't "raw." There's really no analogous method in a DAW to just run a file through without the user working the material. That's why your question brought up the basic issue of the difference between notation renderings and DAW recordings.

    It would be great if you could work the full GPO into your budget, Alex. It sounds like you would appreciate what you'd be able to do with it in Finale.

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    It looks like if I need the better sound I should get GPO4. For notation I can use any available notation software including Finale. Is this correct?

  8. #8

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1211 View Post
    It looks like if I need the better sound I should get GPO4. For notation I can use any available notation software including Finale. Is this correct?
    But you already have Finale, right, so you're not really concerned about setting GPO up in other programs--?

    Michel, Graham Keitch, and David "Et Lux" are some of the Forum members who are wizards at using GPO with Finale - Michel and Graham have already contributed to this thread, so maybe they can help you out more as needed.

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    I loaded only Finale trial version at this point and I am not sure which notation software is more suitable for me yet.

  10. #10

    Re: Garritan personal orchestra 4 sounds much better than in Finale 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex1211 View Post
    I loaded only Finale trial version at this point and I am not sure which notation software is more suitable for me yet.
    Oh, I see - Well Garritan has partnered with both Sibelius and Finale, and those are the two top notation programs, so you'll be fine with either one of those. If you start looking at other notation programs, there's no guarantee that Garritan Libraries will work with them. But there really isn't a reason to look for more programs - those two notation programs have the field covered.

    For whatever reason, Finale is the industry standard, but a lot of people who have worked with both programs say that Sibelius is somehow easier to work with. For me, these programs are just for making pretty PDFs or print outs, and what the playback is like doesn't matter to me. The people, like Graham, Michel, David and others here on the Forum, who can make the audio sound good from Sib or Finale are miracle workers, as far as I'm concerned. That's because my focus is in working with a recording program, Sonar. That's the approach for creating music that appeals to me. --Then I turn to Sibelius (with gritted teeth, since I don't enjoy the process of working with notation)--when I need to have copies made. Whatever sounds Sib chooses to squawk out the music is fine with me, as long as I can recognize it - I'm only doing one task, putting blobs on staff line to represent music I've written. I'm not doing the double duty task that others do of producing both nice looking sheet music and a good sounding recording.

    As with all things, if you ask "Which one should I buy?"--nobody can tell you anything except what their personal preference is. You'll just get biased responses. It would probably be good to check out the Sibelius demo, and then you can decide between it and Finale - and you can rest assured that Garritan Libraries will work in either program.

    Randy

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