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Topic: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

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  1. #1

    Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Many are probably unaware of the Composer Daniel-Lesur...

    He wrote a fair amount of music, but most of it is not heard much these days. I've been doing a lot of piano stuff with the GAS Basic lately, and have decided to share here (I used to post demos about once a week, but life has been too busy these days to keep up at that pace!)

    For your enjoyment:
    Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Randy will be proud of my reverb perspective (for those who might not know it, we had a lot of friendly banter in years past over my love for a REALLY soaking wet reverb... probably due to being an organist and loving the sound in a cathedral!) I've worked a long time to come up with an impulse reverb that gives a sense of space without muddying the clarity of the piano, and I think this is it.

    Do enjoy!

    - G

  2. #2
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Jonathan;
    Very good! Well rendered and I though your IR reverb sounded like it was doing exactly what you wanted, creating a good sized, yet still enclosing space for the piano to occupy. I also appreciated the dynamic, which really seemed to bring the piece to life. And, I quite liked the piece itself!
    Thanks for posting!

    Best regards,
    sd cisco

  3. #3

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    JOnathan!---HA, but you made me Laugh Out Loud with your reference to our old exchanges where I'd praise your work highly (I'll remind you!)--except that I'd comment on what I thought was your penchant for drenching your music in so much reverb it sounded like it was being played from the bottom of the Grand Canyon while I was at the top of the rim. ---Well, you certainly aren't the only person I've made that complaint to.

    BUT - You are so right - Yes indeed you've found an IR and a setting that gives the music air, but is still in what I perceive as the realm of a more natural sounding amount of room reverberation. Bravo on that point alone!

    The music--! What an extremely worthy composer to be exploring - I absolutely love this piece you've posted - Listened to it non-stop 3 times in a row, I'm so taken with its richly playful spirit. So nice! - At first I was listening with my headphones on, but then told my wife that she just Had to hear this - so I turned on the amp, and now she's listened and concurs that it's an especially enchanting little piece.

    BUT I don't want to disappoint - You expect some technical notes from me do you not? All right then!--I'll proceed - because this recording hits upon my newer pet-peeve, somewhat eclipsing my taste for a more tame reverb:

    ---You're using what we affectionately refer to as GAS (an unfortunate acronym if ever there was one) ---but I'm not sure if you have the full version which has multiple perspectives available. This sounds like the "perspective" available in the basic version, because it has the same problem that other recordings using that version has, and which recordings using the close or "under the lid" perspectives in the full version also share--allow me another colon:

    The stereo spread is impossibly wide. Take a listen, and you'll hear the high notes waaaaaay over on the right, and the low notes waaaaaaaaaaaay over on the left. That's the perspective one gets when sitting at a piano, but it isn't what an audience hears. Now - I'm not saying a recording's mix has to be based on what an audience hears from an auditorium, but if one is interested in creating any sort of illusion like that - then the stereo image has to be reduced. See what I mean?

    To make that super wide stereo perspective work - you're already guessing what I'll say - then there should be less reverb--. Why? Because more reverb indicates a greater distance between the musician and the audience. That's what reverb is - the natural result of hearing a musician playing at some distance from us. The farther away he/she is, the more reverberation we'll hear from sound waves bouncing off of the walls in the performance venue.

    So if we're hearing this amount of reverb, which, I repeat, sounds very nice in this recording, then that means we're still at quite a distance from the pianist--about the middle of a medium sized hall it sounds. If I'm sitting in that seat, the piano would sound almost monphonic - I see the piano, that's where the sound is coming from. It would be impossible for the low octaves to sound like they're coming from the left, and the high octaves to be coming from the right.

    How is that corrected? Probably only in an actual recording program, a "DAW," rather than a notation program. There are plug-ins to adjust the stereo spread of an instrument - I use them all the time on Garritan pianos, so they'll sound more natural in a mix.

    OK--There. I didn't want to disappoint. I've lectured you on a new point, and I hope it made some sense to you.

    Much more important, however, is this GREAT rendering of a very excellent, and entertaining piece of music. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting it - It truly lifted my spirits. __-and My wife's too!

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    An interesting piece, and, as always, well done, Jonathan.

    To fill in a little more background, Jean-Yves Daniel-Lesur
    (or Daniel-Jean-Yves Lesur) was born the same year (1908)
    as his friend and contemporary Olivier Messiaen, whom he
    outlived by ten years when he died in 2002 at the age of 93.

    His Le Cantique des Cantiques is perhaps the most commonly
    performed of his works, but beyond choral music and numerous
    songs, he also created a significant output in opera, orchestral,
    instrumental and piano literature... most of which is, sadly,
    only very rarely heard today.

    Thanks for bringing us another gem, Jonathan!

    All the best,



    David
    -----
    David Sosnowski
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  5. #5

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Glad you liked it, Sd!

    Quote Originally Posted by sd cisco View Post
    Jonathan;
    Very good! Well rendered and I though your IR reverb sounded like it was doing exactly what you wanted, creating a good sized, yet still enclosing space for the piano to occupy. I also appreciated the dynamic, which really seemed to bring the piece to life. And, I quite liked the piece itself!
    Thanks for posting!

    Best regards,
    sd cisco

  6. #6

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Thanks Randy for pointing this out!

    It seems I fixed one problem and was so enamored with the results that I missed the context problem created by the panning! What a wonderful supportive community here where we can gently encourage each other to be better musicians and safely give gentle critique and suggestion1

    There is a wonderful free plugin by Flux that allows very precise processing of the stereo image I have used it and here is the result:

    Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Fortunately, Finale now allows me to put this in the VST chain before the final master reverb, so I don't need to resort to a DAW

    I would be interested to hear your take on the revised version... I bet you will like it even better!

    My best,

    - G

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    JOnathan!---HA, but you made me Laugh Out Loud with your reference to our old exchanges where I'd praise your work highly (I'll remind you!)--except that I'd comment on what I thought was your penchant for drenching your music in so much reverb it sounded like it was being played from the bottom of the Grand Canyon while I was at the top of the rim. ---Well, you certainly aren't the only person I've made that complaint to.

    BUT - You are so right - Yes indeed you've found an IR and a setting that gives the music air, but is still in what I perceive as the realm of a more natural sounding amount of room reverberation. Bravo on that point alone!

    <snip>

    So if we're hearing this amount of reverb, which, I repeat, sounds very nice in this recording, then that means we're still at quite a distance from the pianist--about the middle of a medium sized hall it sounds. If I'm sitting in that seat, the piano would sound almost monphonic - I see the piano, that's where the sound is coming from. It would be impossible for the low octaves to sound like they're coming from the left, and the high octaves to be coming from the right.

    How is that corrected? Probably only in an actual recording program, a "DAW," rather than a notation program. There are plug-ins to adjust the stereo spread of an instrument - I use them all the time on Garritan pianos, so they'll sound more natural in a mix.

    OK--There. I didn't want to disappoint. I've lectured you on a new point, and I hope it made some sense to you.

    Much more important, however, is this GREAT rendering of a very excellent, and entertaining piece of music. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for posting it - It truly lifted my spirits. __-and My wife's too!

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Always glad to have you weigh in, David!

    I'm especially pleased that you gave some history/info about the composer - I was posting in a hurry, and did not have time to include it <chuckle>

    Your renderings are always so good, I'm pleased if *you* like it!

    My best, - J

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux View Post
    An interesting piece, and, as always, well done, Jonathan.

    <snip>

    Thanks for bringing us another gem, Jonathan!

    All the best,



    David
    -----
    David Sosnowski
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  8. #8

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    I've listened now to the second version as well,
    Jonathan; and I have a hard time deciding between
    the two. Quite honestly, I do believe I like the
    earlier version, despite the treatment of stereo.
    Perhaps it seems entirely natural that way, as I've
    spent half a century hearing the piano mostly from
    that position... lol?

    Best,



    David
    -----
    David Sosnowski
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  9. #9

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Should rename it:

    "Schweeeet" Francaise - 1 - Divertissment.

    Very nicely done. I really didn't mind the stereo placement of this at all. I kind of like a wider field on a piano because it makes it more interesting sounding. We have the ability to make a piano take the full breadth of our hearing and when presented in solo fashion I don't find anything wrong with stretching out a bit with it. Now in a larger context with other instruments, I would expect it to be mono and panned to a place in the orchestra/band/whathaveyou, but solo, I think it is fine.

    Good rendering, good realization of the work! Nicely done!
    Experience what is necessary to build upon self character, for that is Life's most significant learning event.

  10. #10

    Re: Suite Francaise - 1 - Divertissment

    Looked him up on Internet. An interesting personality. And what you did with this piece was superb. I liked the first version. Why? It is like we are listening to it in a smaller room and in such environment the listener can hear the "wideness" of the instrument. As a piano player (as etLux) it is not uncommon for us hearing the higher tones from the right, etc. So nothing wrong with it. It reflects the intimacy of a smaller ambience. And that is just the environment a piano is invented for (we never thought of that, but somewhere I read this statement).

    Raymond

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