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Topic: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

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  1. #1

    Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    I notice more and more that when listening to movie soundtrack, the mixing seems to be very different from live concert hall performances. For example in the sound track of the movie "Back to the Future" the harp is even louder in its glissandi than the brass chords! Woodwinds are louder than tutti forte strings, etc... Are there different guidelines for film score mixing?
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    I think what you are experiencing is the difference between a concert hall and a movie theatre. In the concert hall, the performance of music is the main objective, and we expect recordings to preserve that feeling of being there. In a movie, the orchestra, sound effects, etc are all there to serve the story. If some element of the sound orchestral or otherwise suits the moment, they will pull it out, amp it up, etc to gain the emotional punch they are looking for. In the movie business there is a saying that 70% of the emotional content of a movie watching experience is the soundtrack. I would guess that some of the sonic shenanigans you are hearing relate closely to specific edit points, tensions, or happenings on screen.

  3. #3

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Most movies produced in Hollywood do not record in a concert hall because the producers don't usually want that kind of sound. Many soundtracks, if not most are recorded on a sound stage which is a large enough room to accommodate a full orchestra, but without the huge "boomy" acoustic properties.

    Todd AO scoring stage is a good example, and this picture is from the Todd AO impulse responses in Altiverb.

    Here is an excerpt of Rhapsody in Blue presenting the difference between Disney Concert Hall and Todd AO Scoring Stage.

    MP3



  4. #4

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN View Post
    Most movies produced in Hollywood do not record in a concert hall because the producers don't usually want that kind of sound. Many soundtracks, if not most are recorded on a sound stage which is a large enough room to accommodate a full orchestra, but without the huge "boomy" acoustic properties.

    Todd AO scoring stage is a good example, and this picture is from the Todd AO impulse responses in Altiverb.

    Here is an excerpt of Rhapsody in Blue presenting the difference between Disney Concert Hall and Todd AO Scoring Stage.

    MP3


    I love the Todd scoring stage sound! But Altiverb is very expensive. I there another way to get this acoustic result? Maybe it exists under another name, like hall 1 or something like that?
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  5. #5

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I love the Todd scoring stage sound! But Altiverb is very expensive. I there another way to get this acoustic result? Maybe it exists under another name, like hall 1 or something like that?
    I've been researching the same thing and the short answer is probably not. There might be some others but I haven't found anything that does exactly what altiverb does. East/West spaces might be the closest thing.

    I'm still researching.
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

  6. #6

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    hi guys,
    there are many impulse response technology reverb plugins available,
    but non of them allow the user to place the sound in any part of that acoustic space like Altiverb does. The "HIGH QUALITY" of the impulse responses that Altiverb provides is astonishing. I can't stress how valuable Altiverb is.

    Dan

  7. #7

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN View Post
    hi guys,
    there are many impulse response technology reverb plugins available,
    but non of them allow the user to place the sound in any part of that acoustic space like Altiverb does. The "HIGH QUALITY" of the impulse responses that Altiverb provides is astonishing. I can't stress how valuable Altiverb is.

    Dan
    Check out this plugin. It's not quite like altiverb because it's not impulse response based, but I downloaded the demo and am playing around with it and it is impressive. I know altiverb also does some "tricks" with panning more or less automatically that this won't do, but I do hear sections "pushed back" or moved forward in the virtual room I choose.

    I was thinking this might be an awesome spatial tool to incorporate directly in the Aria engine. What do you all think about that idea?
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

  8. #8

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by swinkler View Post
    Check out this plugin. It's not quite like altiverb because it's not impulse response based, but I downloaded the demo and am playing around with it and it is impressive. I know altiverb also does some "tricks" with panning more or less automatically that this won't do, but I do hear sections "pushed back" or moved forward in the virtual room I choose.

    I was thinking this might be an awesome spatial tool to incorporate directly in the Aria engine. What do you all think about that idea?
    Just went to the website and downloaded the demo version install. From the product description, this sounds really promising. Okay, so I've got demo versions of Altiverb, Spaces, and now RaySpace. It'll be awhile before I'll be ready to test-drive any of them, but when I do, it'll be nice to have three different products to compare.

    Thanks for passing your find along, Steve!

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  9. #9

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Johnson View Post
    Just went to the website and downloaded the demo version install. From the product description, this sounds really promising. Okay, so I've got demo versions of Altiverb, Spaces, and now RaySpace. It'll be awhile before I'll be ready to test-drive any of them, but when I do, it'll be nice to have three different products to compare.

    Thanks for passing your find along, Steve!

    Steve
    Just curious where you get a demo copy of Altiverb? The website says there are no online demos. I tried to create an account but couldn't find that either.
    Steve Winkler GPO4 JAAB3 Finale 2012 Reaper Windows 7 Pro 64-bit VSL SE+

  10. #10

    Re: Are the mixing rules for film scores different than concert hall performences?

    Quote Originally Posted by swinkler View Post
    Just curious where you get a demo copy of Altiverb? The website says there are no online demos. I tried to create an account but couldn't find that either.
    Yeah, for some reason Audio Ease doesn't want to make it easy for people wanting a demo version. Being a persistent pup, I e-mailed them and found out that demo downloads are by request. Here's what you do:

    1. Send an e-mail to support@audioease.com and say "hey, I'd like to give Altiverb a try!"

    2. You'll get a response with links and instructions for downloading Altiverb and the IR library. (Those are two separate downloads. The IR download is huge -- 1.6 GB!)

    3. To download Altiverb itself, the e-mail from Audio Ease directs you to the download page on their website. On that page you answer two questions, then enter your e-mail address. You need to use the same e-mail address that you sent your request from. FYI: I had a problem with the download page not functioning properly in Internet Explorer. I don't know if that was just me, or if IE has heartburn with something in the page's HTML source code. In case you run into the same situation, use Firefox and the download page will work fine.

    4. Hit the "send" button (well, it actually says "Get Altiverb download email"). You will then receive an e-mail with a special link for downloading the Altiverb install. This link is only good for a day, so if you wait too long, you'll have to go through the whole process on the download page again.

    Talk about going through hoops, huh?!? Also, you should be aware that the demo version of Altiverb is good for only 15 days. Dan Kury has some excellent video tutorials that show how to use Altiverb. I highly recommend that you watch all of them before you install the Altiverb demo. That should help you make the most of the limited time you'll have with the demo. (I'll be doing the same myself to avoid the prospect of having the clock run out while I'm still on the learning curve.) Here's the link to Dan's Altiverb tutes:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...verb-tutorials

    By the way, a huge THANKS to Dan for putting these tutes together.

    If you give the Altiverb demo a try, I'd be interested in getting your feedback, especially how it compares with RaySpaces. So please by all means keep me updated on the results of your test-drives.

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

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