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Topic: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

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  1. #1

    Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    When using the notation patches in GPO4, the sustain pedal (CC# 64) does not activate legato, but rather holds the note as a sustain pedal normally does. After poking around the forum, I get the impression that CC# 68 may activate legato in the notation patches, but after playing around with it for a while, it doesn't seem to do the same thing.

    CC# 68 certainly does affect the sound, but in a different way from 64. I have a slider on my MIDI keyboard set to send CC# 68 on channel 1 with a notation patch set to channel 1 and the equivalent standard patch on channel 2. This way, I can rapidly switch back and forth between the two and perform the same phrases over for each. CC# 68 does seem to take some of the attack off of the notes on the notation patches, but in a very exaggerated way compared to 64 on the standard patch. I have tried setting the CC value to different levels just in case the effect was variable over a continuous spectrum, but there are no CC values that produce the same sound as CC # 64 in the standard patches.

  2. #2

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazerlike42 View Post
    When using the notation patches in GPO4, the sustain pedal (CC# 64) does not activate legato, but rather holds the note as a sustain pedal normally does. After poking around the forum, I get the impression that CC# 68 may activate legato in the notation patches, but after playing around with it for a while, it doesn't seem to do the same thing.

    CC# 68 certainly does affect the sound, but in a different way from 64. I have a slider on my MIDI keyboard set to send CC# 68 on channel 1 with a notation patch set to channel 1 and the equivalent standard patch on channel 2. This way, I can rapidly switch back and forth between the two and perform the same phrases over for each. CC# 68 does seem to take some of the attack off of the notes on the notation patches, but in a very exaggerated way compared to 64 on the standard patch. I have tried setting the CC value to different levels just in case the effect was variable over a continuous spectrum, but there are no CC values that produce the same sound as CC # 64 in the standard patches.
    I recently upgraded to GPO4, although I haven't had time to experiment with it yet. However, right after I made the upgrade I posted a question on the general forum about the difference between the standard and notation patches. According to an answer from senior member Peter Gale, CC# 68 does indeed control legato with the notation patches. Based on what you're saying, I wonder if we need to add the word "theoretically." Here are a couple of suggestions:

    1. Stick with the standard patches and use CC# 64, since that seems to work for you.

    2. Increase the note durations in your legato passages, maybe adding 10% to their original value. Then use the auto-legato function. According to the manual (pg. 56), auto-legato automatically detects the overlaps and adjusts the attack times of the notes accordingly. Once again, since I haven't road-tested GPO4 yet, I don't know how well this works. If there are other aspects of the notation patches you prefer over the standard ones, this is at least worth a try. Otherwise, I'd say go with idea #1.

    If you decide to try the auto-legato route, I'd be curious to know how it turns out, so please let me know.

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  3. #3

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Hi Lazerlike42

    Double check what it says in your manual ... I seem to recall it saying that CC#68 is used in only some of the notation patches instead of CC#64, others still use CC#64 as normal.

    But I'm just confused as to why you would want to use the notation patches unless your using a notation program, in which case it will handle the controllers for you, or you want to mix a piece you created in a notation program (as Steve did, I think), in which case the notation program should have already used the controllers correctly for you.

    I'm sure the notation patches use the same underlying samples as the standard patches, they're just programmed differently to fit with how notation programs expect to use them, so it seems unecessary confusion for you to try to use them directly.

    Peter

  4. #4

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Jeffrey Gale View Post
    But I'm just confused as to why you would want to use the notation patches unless your using a notation program, in which case it will handle the controllers
    Hi Peter
    I guess he's having some wrestling with Notion3 to make it handle the right CC at the right place. Isn't it?
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  5. #5

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by fabiolcati View Post
    I guess he's having some wrestling with Notion3 to make it handle the right CC at the right place. Isn't it?
    Hi fabiolcati

    Lazerlike42 doesn't mention using a notation program like Notion3.

    He/she seems to be using the standalone Aria player controlled directly by his keyboard.

    There's no need to use the notation patches in that case, so far as I understand.

    Peter

  6. #6

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Yes, I am trying to get Notion 3 to handle things correctly. There's an error in the way they've configured it to work: they use the notation patches, but send CC #64 for legato.

    I was using the standalone player to experiment and see if controller 68 activated legato with the notation patches, because it allows me to rapidly switch between channel 1 and 2 and compare sounds.

    Unfortunately, there's no legato indicator anywhere, so it's not as simple as setting up a control change and watching things: you need to listen to hear it. Listening to it play my score with CC #68 didn't really sound right, so I loaded up the standalone player to experiment.

    As I said, CC# 68 definitely does something similar to legato, but it's not the same effect as depressing the pedal (or sending CC# 64) in standard patches. The attack is taken off of the notes, but they sound very separated - detache, almost.

    I've tried turning up the note length when using CC# 68 and that's much better, but it's still not quite the same as legato in the standard patches.

  7. #7

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by lazerlike42 View Post
    Yes, I am trying to get Notion 3 to handle things correctly. There's an error in the way they've configured it to work: they use the notation patches, but send CC #64 for legato.

    I was using the standalone player to experiment and see if controller 68 activated legato with the notation patches, because it allows me to rapidly switch between channel 1 and 2 and compare sounds.

    Unfortunately, there's no legato indicator anywhere, so it's not as simple as setting up a control change and watching things: you need to listen to hear it. Listening to it play my score with CC #68 didn't really sound right, so I loaded up the standalone player to experiment.

    As I said, CC# 68 definitely does something similar to legato, but it's not the same effect as depressing the pedal (or sending CC# 64) in standard patches. The attack is taken off of the notes, but they sound very separated - detache, almost.

    I've tried turning up the note length when using CC# 68 and that's much better, but it's still not quite the same as legato in the standard patches.
    Since you increased the note length, have you tried activating the ARIA auto-legato function for the instruments you're using? The point with auto-legato is that it automatically applies legato playback based on the detection of note overlaps. This frees you from having to apply a legato controller through your notation program. I suspect that perhaps Notion is not handling CC 68 data properly, in which case auto-legato may give you the results you're looking for.

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  8. #8

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Johnson View Post
    Since you increased the note length, have you tried activating the ARIA auto-legato function for the instruments you're using? The point with auto-legato is that it automatically applies legato playback based on the detection of note overlaps. This frees you from having to apply a legato controller through your notation program. I suspect that perhaps Notion is not handling CC 68 data properly, in which case auto-legato may give you the results you're looking for.

    Steve
    Well, no. You see, the notation patches don't have an auto-legato feature. In any case, I wasn't turning the note length up in the notation software, but in the Garritan interface.

    However, I have found something that seems to do the trick. Setting the note length knob (in Garritan's interface) to about 90% and activating CC #68 is indistinguishable -at least to my ears - from the standard patch legato. I've set Notion to activate CC#68 and CC#21 (which changes Garritan's note length setting) for legato notes, and it does what I'm looking for.

    I suspect that what's going on here is that when you use the standard legato function (CC# 64 or the sustain pedal), the Aria player automatically turns the note length up to account for the lack of an attack but that for whatever reason (programming oversight, Finale compatibility, etc.) it doesn't do the same for CC# 68, and so 90% on that knob is the sweet spot that matches what the program automatically does for CC# 64.

  9. #9

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    one question is CC#68 actually needed when you are using auto-legato mode now?
    "Music is a manifestation of the human spirit similar to a language. If we do not want such things to remain dead treasures, we must do our utmost to make the greatest number of people understand their secrets" -- Zoltan Kodaly

  10. #10

    Re: Is there a way to activate legato with the notation patches in GPO4?

    Quote Originally Posted by dewdman42 View Post
    one question is CC#68 actually needed when you are using auto-legato mode now?
    No, auto-legato replaces CC# 68. However, lazerlike42 is correct in pointing out that the notation patches do not have auto-legato, so if you're using that sound library with a notation program you'll have to use CC# 68 as your legato controller.
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

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