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Topic: The formula where vision and sound meet.

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  1. #1

    The formula where vision and sound meet.

    I've heard some about parallels between vision and sound. And couldn't help but think
    maybe one day we might find the perfect balance between vision and sound.
    For instance you could play a video and the computer could render a song that harmonizes
    with what you see visually. Imagine a day when working in your daw, You are assisted
    with visual elements while working on your songs. For instance, when your songs starts
    getting worse, the colors and everything to visually assist you in your daw starts
    getting out of harmony. I know this has been achieved in the sense of meters and stuff.
    But couldn't help but think maybe one day after composing a beautiful song it might
    also render a beautiful visual harmony. Perhaps its already been done and I just don't know about it. Or perhaps its impossible for good reasons. Just a random thought. I dont think
    I've ever seen a daw with color harmony assisting you.

    Gotta head to work,
    Catcha later

  2. #2

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    for genuine, honest artistic worth, WE (humans) should decide this.
    A computer can only randomly decide for us what it thinks we may like.

    Not in my lifetime,,,

  3. #3

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    I strongly aggree with you Dan. But I got a feeling theres a way to harness color to assist working on music. Kinda like meters are tech but they assist in accomplishing alot. That dosnt mean if someone went against the color assist it would be bad. Just that it might be a helpful tool i alot of areas to achieve certain goals in technical quality. Maybe this isn't the place to talk about. And even if its a horrible idea alot of times bad ideas trigger good ones.

  4. #4

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    Oh .. I couldn't agree more with Dan.

    So, how or why should a computer decide if my song is getting worse or to decide if a song is beautiful or not? What if the song is just as I want it and, for me, the song is beautiful, and the computer disagrees?

    Humans have different likes and dislikes in music and, often, cannot agree if a piece of music is good or otherwise so how can computer software decide?

    If someone needs this kind of interference with their writing then maybe they should consider undertaking a course of music study.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  5. #5

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    I edited this because I feel I was delusional and I don't agree with some of the stuff I was saying.

  6. #6

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    Dan will you delete this thread?
    I want to take back what I said but I don't want to edit first post then have your responses not apply. I know a computer will never interpret a picture of a women holding her child.
    And I know everyone might interpret it differently and thats one of the things I love about life.

  7. #7

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    Quote Originally Posted by ome248 View Post
    Dan will you delete this thread?
    I want to take back what I said but I don't want to edit first post then have your responses not apply. I know a computer will never interpret a picture of a women holding her child.
    And I know everyone might interpret it differently and thats one of the things I love about life.
    Awww, this isn't a bad subject at all! I don't think you've said anything that people may find offensive, but then again, who knows? If you want the thread deleted, I suppose it's your call, and I won't try to stop you However, I'm going to post what I think before this string is undone!

    I think some of the debate might be focused on the idea of an Artificially Intelligent machine actually interpreting your music, or progress of your music, and giving you a visual rendering to help you "see" your music as a visual art.

    Without getting into the debate about, "What is AI?" we could argue that we have programs that mimic this. I think the most widely recognized example would be Windows Media Player. It takes sound files, and can automatically create visualizations to "match" the music. However, this is very different than saying, "The computer decided what the music should look like."

    What is important to remember, is that every program is developed by real-life people! (And in some cases, lots of them! And in other cases, developed by other programs that were developed by people) What is really being shown is an estimation of what the program developers (who may or may not be musically inclined) feel certain sounds, volumes, timbres, etc. may make them feel.

    The developers of said software can use various algorithms to create visualizations that can essentially, "guess" what certain sounds may look like, according to the developers' taste (or even worse, what the developers think others might like )

    So essentially, what ends up happening, is, like Michael_uk hinted at, you see a visual representation that is loosely based on what other people's taste in music may be.

    As software development is where I hope to make my profession in the near future (hopefully next spring, woo!) I can talk on this subject for a while, but I'll stop here with the emphasis that: whatever a computer does, whether it seems to make its own decisions or not, a human has to tell it exactly how to do it.

    Have a nice day, and thanks for the topic!
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  8. #8

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN View Post
    A computer can only randomly decide for us what it thinks we may like.
    Not after I beat the crap out of mine with an ax, it can't.

    David
    -----
    David Sosnowski
    www.DavidSosnowski.com

  9. #9

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    Go ahead keep the thread going. I just don't know how to explain things sometimes.
    Its an idea I've been trying to understand and expand on. And some things I didn't think
    through or mean. For instance if I look at a picture of a human experience I may have an emotional interpretation. But if I look at a picture of a leaf and see the wonderful balance
    of gradients and color that almost seems math or some kinda balance thats a different kind
    of interpretation. For instance dan told me the other day, try quieting the piano a little because your song would better fit a convention in the way orchestras are generall set up.
    Wich seems to me perhaps an arrangement based on both math, balance and human interpretation. I love that aria player already has a standard left/right pan for each instrument because right now thats not my area of study and I'm focusing on other aspects.
    And I love the stuff Dan told me. And I find it all very interesting and would like to learn but right now I'm focusing more on trying to bring things to music on the melody side of things. Although I would love to be master of all one day and be involved in every area
    of composition. I'm really grateful for assistance in terms of defaults and logic in areas I'm not able to perform on a human level. This whole Idea came to me because theres so many parallels with vision and sound. For instance we call some sounds bright and others soft or whatever, I'm not very informed on all this. But I thought, what if when looking at my midi composition the sharpness in areas and softness in notes were also seen visuall with brighter and darker notes. So when I reached a good Balance I could also see a good balance visually. Perhaps this cant be done for the reasons above. I am new to monitor speakers and I've come to know that different speakers tell diffrent things in terms of balance and I thought it might be interesting to have more visual assistance in that area if possible. And in terms of colors I've just always had a feeling notes and colors are one in the same. Perhaps there not. But there seems to be alot of parallells. Heres some stuff I was scratchin in notepad the other day when i was thinking about the idea.
    tempo - speed of movement
    sustain/length - sharpness
    high low - bright, dark
    note/harmony - color
    object size - Bass
    Distance - Volume
    white is silence - dark is loud
    audio assist
    video assist
    I dont remember what it all means but maybe it gives some insight into the original idea.
    Anyways I still havn't thought all this through and perhaps others have and it only reveals a lack of eductaion or knowledge on my part. If thats the case I apologize. I run into
    those kinda situations all the time. And I am very uneducated and was very ignorant growing up. I want to improve as a person though and dont wanna be the stubborn man I always was.

    All the best,
    Earl

    Please ignore the random stuff I wrote down in notepad. I don't mean it as truth. I was just trying to think of possible parallels with vision.

    Ultimately I thnk its best to work with a team of people and as a body in music. But thats not something I know how to get into at this stage. If I was going to school in this I'm sure that would be more likely.
    So right now I'm a hobbiest at best.

  10. #10

    Re: The formula where vision and sound meet.

    here's a kind of weird, but interesting experiment. give it a whirl, and tell me what you think:

    you have two photographs, each with the same subject...say, a woman holding her baby.
    in the first photo, she's holding her baby in a cozy soft bed, with lots of comforters, etc.
    the second photo is the same subject (woman holding her child) set against a backdrop of the smoldering ruins of a bombed-out city.

    take a moment, and mentally "hear" appropriate music for each of the two "photographs". despite them being only vaguely described, completely imaginary mental pictures, you get pretty definite musical ideas that would fit each one, yes?
    now if you close your eyes, and only "hear" that same music, do you see the same pictures?

    i would be willing to bet that at least in broad terms, the music that we each imagined for the first picture would share a lot of similar characteristics. it's pretty universal, and not really open to many interpretations.
    the second photo i find more compelling, because it could inspire completely different feelings. some might see this second picture as "a mother's love for her child being a universal virtue despite adversity". others might see it as an angry expression of "the horrors of war visited upon the innocent". meanwhile, the photographer could've been expressing something else altogether ("my, what a cute baby!").
    i'd assume more variance in the sorts of music we "heard".

    fwiw, when i "hear" the music on its own, i do not "see" the original pictures that inspired them. i see things roughly similar in mood, but not the specific mother/child pictures themselves. just thought that was really strange.

    k
    "...you get to drink from...THE FIREHOSE!!!"

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