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Topic: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

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  1. #1

    Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    I'm a newbie both to Garritan Personal Orchestra and to NorthernSounds, so I apologize if I have put this in the wrong spot.

    I am using Garritan Personal Orchestra as a VST plug-in in Sonar Producer 8.5. I guess I have 2 questions, really. First of all, when creating a controller envelope in the track view, I can't see a list of controllers that GPO responds to. I realize this may be more of a Sonar question and I will post this question in the Sonar forum as well. Just thought I'd throw it out there.

    More importantly, it seems that with GPO, when I'm inserting brass parts (especially trumpet), the longer notes seem to flare at the end (get louder and brighter). Adjusting the sample length (CC#21) seems to help a bit, and the different patches have more or less of the effect. But I am wondering if there is a controller or technique that I am missing to reduce this effect?

  2. #2

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Hi mkuehlok2,

    I don't notice a flair per say, but the timbre does appear to change (or rather, stops changing) wtih long notes because the tone evolution only lasts as long as the player held the note during recording. After that duration (but before the release), a segment is looped if longer notes are needed. I don't find it to be brighter in the examples I just listened to (on the contrary, the later part of the tone generally sounded less brassy-rich and more harmonic), but it could very well be brighter for certain tones. It depends on the segment that was looped.

    Maybe there is something else happening that's causing what you hear--we'll wait and see if anyone else knows.
    "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." – Henry Thoreau


  3. #3

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    I can answer the controller question as I asked that myself on Sonar's forum. GPO 4 and the ARIA player do not connect with Sonar 8.5 the same as other samplers and there is no list for the controller names available. I get just a blank controller list in Piano Roll View but other samplers have all the CC# and what they are listed. I do not know who or which software is responsible for this (either Garritan or Cakewalk) but it is just the way it is. I keep my CC# cheat sheet from the Garritan manual at my side every time I work the the Controllers, though most of the common ones are committed to memory.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  4. #4

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Thanks RichR. That's pretty much what I thought. On the Sonar forum I got an answer from another Sonar user who thought it would be really nice if those drop-down boxes could be edited in Sonar. Another item for a wish list!

    The person I connected with at the Sonar forum was having the same type of problem with the brass sections. I'm wondering if it is 1) a Sonar problem or 2) a sound card issue, maybe some kind of latency problem. Not only do I get a noticeable flare as described above, but I have a hard time getting a nice, crisp attack in brass voices, especially very short notes. Any ideas? By the way, I'm assuming you are using or have used GPO with Sonar. Do you use it as a VST plugin or as a DXi instrument?

  5. #5

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    I can answer the controller question as I asked that myself on Sonar's forum. GPO 4 and the ARIA player do not connect with Sonar 8.5 the same as other samplers and there is no list for the controller names available. I get just a blank controller list in Piano Roll View but other samplers have all the CC# and what they are listed. I do not know who or which software is responsible for this (either Garritan or Cakewalk) but it is just the way it is. I keep my CC# cheat sheet from the Garritan manual at my side every time I work the the Controllers, though most of the common ones are committed to memory.
    Hmmmm, well that's one of the improvements in GPO that was made with the new Aria version. There's no need for a cheat sheet. You click the Controller tab, and all the controllers available for a particular instrument are displayed. The CC# that controls each knob are written right there. No need to keep looking at a manual or handwritten notes.

    mkuehlok2, so you're correct that the controller assignment mechanism in the Synth Rack View doesn't apply to GPO. All the controls available are already right there for you to access in the Aria GUI.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Hmmmm, well that's one of the improvements in GPO that was made with the new Aria version. There's no need for a cheat sheet. You click the Controller tab, and all the controllers available for a particular instrument are displayed. The CC# that controls each knob are written right there. No need to keep looking at a manual or handwritten notes.
    This is news to me. Just a couple of weeks ago I asked this question at the Sonar forum. Here is the answer you gave me there:

    What you're describing is what happens to everyone when using some synths. For instance - you get the blank CC menu syndrome with the Garritan Libraries.

    I've gotten so used to that, because it's always been like that, but if you're using some CCs you're not as familiar with, it is a hassle.

    Try the Sonar TTS-1 synth - you'll see all the controllers available in it, and many other synths.

    Some mysterious combination of a given synth's programming and Sonar's programming not meshing when it comes to this PRV menu.

    Randy B.
    That was on July 30th. Has there been an update to ARIA since then? If so, I haven't heard about it. Where do we get news of ARIA updates anyway?

    Sorry, mkuehlok2 for stepping in on your query, but I think there is a relationship to your problem and this.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  7. #7

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    This is news to me. Just a couple of weeks ago I asked this question at the Sonar forum. Here is the answer you gave me there:



    That was on July 30th. Has there been an update to ARIA since then? If so, I haven't heard about it. Where do we get news of ARIA updates anyway?

    Sorry, mkuehlok2 for stepping in on your query, but I think there is a relationship to your problem and this.
    Hi, Rich - We've been talking about two different things by accident. Sorry about the confusion.

    The reply you quoted from the Sonar Forum was talking about the menu in Sonar's Piano Roll View where you choose the MIDI controller you want to assign to each track. With most synths, you get a list of all the possible controllers and a label for what that controller does when it's programmed by the MIDI spec. That menu comes up blank with all Garritan Libraries. You have to type in the controller you want.

    That menu in Sonar has always been like that in relation to Garritan Libraries, and nothing's changed.

    I thought mkuehlok2 was talking about the blank knobs in the Synth Rack View which can be brought up under each synth, and then the knobs are assigned the automation you want.

    I was running through the thread too fast last night and thought it was the Synth Rack being talked about--Notice I made reference to it.

    Right - the menu in Piano Roll View is what you mentioned, Rich, and I didn't notice that.

    But my earlier post explains that Aria has made all MIDI control of GPO easier now. All you do is open up the GUI's Control page, and you have your instant "cheat sheet"--all the controllers available for a given instrument are labeled right there so you can type in the ones you need in the PRV menu.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Language can certainly confuse the issue...

    Thanks for the reply on this Randy. Apples still aren't oranges.

    You did make a statement that I still don't understand, though:

    But my earlier post explains that Aria has made all MIDI control of GPO easier now. All you do is open up the GUI's Control page, and you have your instant "cheat sheet"--all the controllers available for a given instrument are labeled right there so you can type in the ones you need in the PRV menu.
    By GUI are you referring to the ARIA Player's GUI? And how do you get to the control page? Is that one of the tabs like "Effect", "Mixer", etc.? I do not remember seeing a list of CC's on any of those 4 tabs. I will have to look more carefully the next time.

    Thanks again, Randy
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  9. #9

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    Language can certainly confuse the issue...

    Thanks for the reply on this Randy. Apples still aren't oranges.

    You did make a statement that I still don't understand, though:



    By GUI are you referring to the ARIA Player's GUI? And how do you get to the control page? Is that one of the tabs like "Effect", "Mixer", etc.? I do not remember seeing a list of CC's on any of those 4 tabs. I will have to look more carefully the next time.

    Thanks again, Randy
    Oh my! - This is one of the major improvements of Aria over the old Kontakt Player.

    Yes, the Aria interface - Click "Control"--there you have all the available CCs for the currently selected instrument. There are knobs to turn if you want to globally change them for a project, and the CCs which control the knobs are listed right there. You also have a very good EQ section to work with, Auto Legato, and Stereo Stage - all easily accessed on the Control page.

    Like I said - No need to make notes, use cheat sheets and all that - Just look at the Aria interface.

    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Brass flare in Garritan Personal Orchestra

    Again with the misunderstanding of the language. Randy, I know the knobs and the regular ARIA and Garritan CC#s that are shown on that tab of the player. The EQ is great and the auto-legato saves a ton of time. I thought when you said "cheat sheet" that it listed all 127 different CC#s and what they did or didn't do.

    So, what you are saying is that what is listed on that GUI tab are the only CC#s that the Garritan samples even effect and that none of the other 127 CC#s that are not listed have no effect on the sound of the samples in the Garritan Library. Is that a correct assumption?

    Thanks again and my apologies for stepping into another member's thread. Sorry, mkuehlok2.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

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