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Topic: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

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  1. #1

    Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Sonar 8.5.3 32bit
    Steinway Standard (all updates)
    Aria latest version

    This problem is exhibited on Desktop and Laptop

    Load Sonar
    Load Aria player
    Load Steinway classic


    Place pedal messages on and off in midi track pointed to Aria/Steinway
    Hit Play
    Pedal ON messages responded to
    Subsequent OFF messages not responded to

    Summary
    Once triggered always on despite Low Value midi cc message
    I can't get the pedals to respond to a midi off message (assumed to be cc#64 value [ for sustain] of 63 or below?)
    They do respond to a cc64=127 "on" message.
    This applies to Sustain, Sostenuto and Soft

    Also, when using the mouse to turn off/on they seem very "finiky" as to where I click on them compared to using the standalone Area player.

    Anyone else see this?
    Thanks,
    Fred

  2. #2

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Hi Fred,
    You'll need to use a cc value of 0 for turn off. Yes, sustain pedal is cc64 (sostenuto is cc66 and soft pedal cc67). Hope this helps,
    Jeff

  3. #3

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Hi Jeff,
    DOH!
    Thanks, Didn't realize that ANY positive value would turn on the pedal(s)[?] and ONLY a value of Zero(0) would turn it off.

    Question: Then is "Half" and "Proportional" pedaling available at other cc values?

    Fred

  4. #4

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Yes the other cc values are half pedaled, although it affects only sustain resonance right now. Affecting the main note's decay rate also is one of the things in the works.

  5. #5

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hurchalla View Post
    Hi Fred,
    You'll need to use a cc value of 0 for turn off. Yes, sustain pedal is cc64 (sostenuto is cc66 and soft pedal cc67). Hope this helps,
    Jeff
    I've gotta say -- this is almost beyond belief. ... I just bought this piano today, and it has a pretty good sound (though no better than SampleTekk's Black Grand).

    But the fact that it does not respond to pedaled CC64 off messages is just an incredible omission. How could it have been put on the market this way?

    I do hope this is attended to in the 1.05 version. If not, it will be very little used and I'm not gonna feel great about spending $99 for it.

    No offense intended, guys, but GEE WHIZ!

  6. #6
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    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    There has to be a problem with your setup. CC64 has always worked since the first release. Make sure your sustain pedal is sending 127 for on and 0 for off.

    Jim

  7. #7

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Quote Originally Posted by Haydn View Post
    There has to be a problem with your setup. CC64 has always worked since the first release. Make sure your sustain pedal is sending 127 for on and 0 for off.

    Jim
    Hi Jim,

    No problem with my sustain pedal, which successfully sends both on and off CC64 messages to all my other pianos and other instruments.

    Please note what the forum member who started this thread wrote:

    Once triggered always on ... I can't get the (Steinway internal) pedals to respond to a midi off message. ... They do respond to a cc64=127 "on" message.

    That's the same experience I'm having. The piano responds to a 127 message, but not a 0 when delivered by pedal. It will respond to 0 only when a controller event is sent from my sequencer (Sonar).

  8. #8

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Most likely your sustain pedal is not sending 0 for a pedal up event. The other software pianos are probably interpreting any sustain value less than 64 as a pedal up, which is why they would respond to your pedal. If you're interested you could download midiox ( www.midiox.com) to see what your pedal is sending. I suspect it is not sending any 0 values. If so, I'd view that as a fault of the pedal, although I also think it would be good whenever possible to make the software robust against strange conditions like that. If I can change the sustain to accept non-zero values as 'off' values without breaking any of the normal functioning of the piano, I'll likely do it.

  9. #9

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hurchalla View Post
    Most likely your sustain pedal is not sending 0 for a pedal up event. The other software pianos are probably interpreting any sustain value less than 64 as a pedal up, which is why they would respond to your pedal. If you're interested you could download midiox ( www.midiox.com) to see what your pedal is sending. I suspect it is not sending any 0 values. If so, I'd view that as a fault of the pedal, although I also think it would be good whenever possible to make the software robust against strange conditions like that. If I can change the sustain to accept non-zero values as 'off' values without breaking any of the normal functioning of the piano, I'll likely do it.
    Thanks, Jeff. I'll try this and get back to you. ...

  10. #10

    Re: Midi cc "off" Pedal problems Steinway - Once triggered always on

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hurchalla View Post
    If I can change the sustain to accept non-zero values as 'off' values without breaking any of the normal functioning of the piano, I'll likely do it.
    I assume you mean adding that as an option only. It works fine the way it is now with pedals that send proportional values and you don't want to mess up the pedal response on pianos that work correctly.

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