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Topic: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

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  1. #1

    The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Dear Garritanites

    I'm also active at the Cakewalk/Sonar Forum. Awhile back an idea came up and kept expanding until now it is truly a Big and Exciting Orchestral challenge event that I hope you look in to. Fellow Sonar member, David Townsend "Bitflipper" and I are co-chairmen on this.

    At first it was a small thing just being done for the Sonar Forum, and so I hadn't mentioned it here.

    But NOW - all I can say is that activity is high, PRIZES - and I mean actual, great, prizes worth good $$ are in the offing for winners.

    AND this event is open to everyone, regardless of what recording program they use. Cubase, Finale, Reaper - matters not what you use. This is a "DAW agnostic" contest.

    In a nutshell - we are all using one common MIDI file, a sequence of the theme from "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," and demonstrating the capabilities of various orchestral soft synths with it. The guidelines we have in place make the projects very short term and easy to put together - No editing of actual notes is allowed, but making the most out of your soft synth Is allowed - using appropriate MIDI controllers etc.

    All the information and rules, links to materials etc can be found here:

    THE ORCHESTRAL SHOOTOUT

    More info to come - Please go take a look!

    Randy

  2. #2

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Ohh, this looks fun. Finally a chance to really see what my new EWQLSO sounds can do!

    Just on question though. I saw that editing the actual notes is not allowed, but can we make an exception to overlap them for legato sections?

    I also assume we are free to cut/coppy/paste the midi file as needed to add various articulations for libraries like EWQLSO that need different miditracks per articulation?

    Edit: Oh boy... those horns are NOT going to be fun to deal with. Is there any way to spit the 3 horns that are currently on 1 midi file, into 3 different midi files so that I can have better control over them, or is this against the rules/impossible/both?

    Also, it might be just me... but twice I've had a very horrible loud noise like a jet taking off right in my ears when the base bones started playing. After this, the first part of the midi file (pretty much seems to be everything before the "explosion") is corrupted, and will not make any sound.

  3. #3

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Randy,

    This sounds great. I am very impressed at the sound coming from just the TTS-1! A testament to Goldsmith's writing as well as your MIDI orchestration.

    Michael,

    I don't get any jet planes or problems with the file, although I downloaded the .CWP SONAR MIDI file instead of the other one (improved MIDI) which I understood was for other sequencers.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  4. #4

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Ahh, that might be what's doing it, though I don't see why.

  5. #5

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael135 View Post
    Ohh, this looks fun. Finally a chance to really see what my new EWQLSO sounds can do!

    Just on question though. I saw that editing the actual notes is not allowed, but can we make an exception to overlap them for legato sections?

    I also assume we are free to cut/coppy/paste the midi file as needed to add various articulations for libraries like EWQLSO that need different miditracks per articulation?

    Edit: Oh boy... those horns are NOT going to be fun to deal with. Is there any way to spit the 3 horns that are currently on 1 midi file, into 3 different midi files so that I can have better control over them, or is this against the rules/impossible/both?

    Also, it might be just me... but twice I've had a very horrible loud noise like a jet taking off right in my ears when the base bones started playing. After this, the first part of the midi file (pretty much seems to be everything before the "explosion") is corrupted, and will not make any sound.
    Hi, Michael - Let me take one thing at a time. First an acknowledgment to Chip "Reberclark"--Glad you're getting into this, Chip! This has been keeping me busy recently, and the fun just keeps increasing. More will be revealed about this event/contest tomorrow--just you wait!

    Taking your questions in order, Michael:

    1 - When we say no actual changing of the notes allowed, we mean that totally literally. The notes, the pitches shouldn't be changed. But editing the length, the velocity, the volume levels - all else is part of the editing that Is allowed. We just have to keep a level playing field with the essence of the file itself - the literal notes. There are some wrong notes in the file, and there are some questionable arrangement choices - this sequence is something someone did "by ear" - But to leave it as is in the area of pitches is necessary so that everyone is working with the same raw material.

    2 - So yes, you can split tracks up however you need to for working with your synth of choice. Something most everyone has to do is divide the percussion track up since all four instruments are on one track, and chances are the notes won't line up with the appropriate instruments in your synth, even if it has an all-in-one "Orchestral Percussion Patch." The percussion instruments are, from bottom to top, bass drum, snare, tympani, and cymbal(s).

    3 - Horns- Same answer. Yes, divide that one track however it needs to be for what you're working with.

    4 - "Jet taking off" and "...the first part of the midi file (pretty much seems to be everything before the "explosion") is corrupted, and will not make any sound..." ---I have no idea what you're talking about. You're apparently using the MIDI file, not the .cwp file, but many people have been using the MIDI file with no problems like you're describing. So when you say, "...it might be just me..." I'll have to concur, actually I'll have to agree even more positively, that yes, it is just you. - You're having the wrong instrument/sound triggered in the program you're using.

    To elaborate:

    Don't forget this is a General MIDI file - the MIDI Type 1 file you're using. That means that it has embedded program change information in each track. That's the way GM works - Patch change data in the track automatically sets the right instrument to play in a GM synth or module.

    But you said you're using EWQLSO, and that's far from a GM synth. The data in the track is probably shifting that trombone track to some sound effect, or something else unexpected.

    The first thing you need to do when trying to use a GM MIDI track with a non-GM synth is to make sure you know what instrument is supposed to be associated with each track, and then strip out the program change data.

    That should get you going.

    Back to Chip - Glad you liked the TTS-1 track - That Does sound pretty good, eh? And all that was done with that was the original source MIDI track was loaded into Sonar, all tracks were pointed to the TTS-1 (a Sonar GM synth) - and the results were exported. OOOOkay, well some basic effects were strapped to tracks in the mixer, - a reverb unit, and limiter on the master. And as always I tweaked a little bit in Sound Forge--just rudimentary standard practice stuff - and that was the result. That's the demo file to show people what the raw material can sound like.

    I received a flood of submissions - and after tomorrow's exciting announcements - I know we'll be getting a lot more.

    TIP - This really should be a short project to do. Just get the file open, either .cwp or MIDI file - get your synth of choice going, make whatever edits you want to the data - and record it.

    Hope to get MP3s from you both, and more folks here. -----Did I mention--there are some excellent prizes involved?----

    AND please understand that it's OK that we'll be getting submissions which use the same software - We can have as many from any given library as you can name, that doesn't matter. I can tell you from experience, that every recording sounds different because of the person who made the recording. We could have 10 entries that use GPO and I know that they would each sound very different - That's part of the fun.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    I'm seriously doubting that my humble mixing efforts will be enough to win anything, but I'll definitely try!

  7. #7

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael135 View Post
    I'm seriously doubting that my humble mixing efforts will be enough to win anything, but I'll definitely try!
    Self doubt prevents too much from happening, so I'm glad to hear you're definitely going to enter.

    Did my earlier post help you out? Did those peculiar things stop happening with your MIDI file?

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Yes, you answered all my questions.

    Now I just need to figure out how to actually split that midi file into 3 midi files...

  9. #9

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael135 View Post
    Yes, you answered all my questions.

    Now I just need to figure out how to actually split that midi file into 3 midi files...
    Hello again, Michael -

    Before helping you out with that - an observation:

    There's a current thread here in General Discussion about Forums online, whether or not they're declining, and if they are, what the causes are. It's a very good discussion. Some people are accurately pointing out that some Forums are still doing just fine online, and part of the reason for their success is how broad of an audience their topic reaches.

    The Sonar Forum where I'm very active now is the most lively Forum I've ever been on. There are new posts every time I look, and posts that are wrapped up quickly sink off the front page. Well, Sonar has a huge audience, lots of users, and the potential for topics is very wide - and so it's an example of a Forum that remains as active as ever.

    Our own Forum here could be more active if people continued to ask their questions the way they used to. The topic of using Garritan Libraries to their best advantage in every recording program possible really is a large topic, even though of course the pool of users is smaller than a program like Sonar.

    That's why I'm glad you asked another question. I feel we should all be asking each other questions whenever they occur to us. There are great members here who are glad to help out when they know there's a specific question that needs a reply.

    So, to your question - "...how to actually split that midi file into 3 midi files..."

    I'll keep my question unspecific to any "DAW."

    --First of all you won't be splitting it into three MIDI files - you'll just be splitting it into three MIDI tracks - there's a big difference. The file is the entire collection of tracks that comprise one piece. But a file can have many tracks.

    Specifically it's the horn track you want to split up, and there may be others--Well, I can guarantee you'll need to split up the percussion track, as more than hinted at in an earlier post from me.

    Simple -

    --With your cursor at the start of the project, highlight the one track, the horns. Copy it.

    --Insert new MIDI tracks in your project under the original horn track.

    --Paste the copy of the horns into the first track.

    --Paste the copy of the horns into the second track.

    --Go into the header information for each MIDI track and direct it to the appropriate slot in your soft synth. If you know you want three different horns, you must have three different horns loaded in your synth - so now direct those tracks to those separate instruments.

    --In your MIDI editing window, usually the Piano Roll View of a sequencer, in the first track, erase the two lower notes throughout, retaining just the highest horn line.

    --In the second track, edit again, erasing the highest and lowest notes, retaining the middle line.

    --you guessed it - in the third track, retain only the bottom notes.

    --You now have your horn line split into three discrete tracks, each directed to a different horn.

    NOTE:---That's how you split complex tracks like those for most any instrument. Percussion tracks are easier to split because in a GM MIDI file, notes for one instance will tend to be on one note. i.e. all snare parts on one note, all bass drum parts on one note. You simply select all those notes with one click and click delete in order to thin out instruments in your split percussion tracks.

    SECOND IMPORTANT NOTE:---Now that I've described all that--I'll add that it may not be necessary to split up the horn for this project. You could probably just as well use a horn instrument playing all three parts - Use your ears to see if the difference is sufficient to go to all the extra work. Maybe it is--maybe it isn't.--You just shouldn't assume you Have to split up an instrument's track when group notes are all on one track as they are in GM files.

    Randy B.

  10. #10

    Re: The Orchestral Shootout - Exciting contest NOW at Sonar Forum

    I could probably get away with just slapping one of the french horn patches on, but the main problem comes from the darn variation in note lengths. The short one really needs to be either the staccato or marcato patch, while the long ones are far to long to just use the marcato patch with out it cutting off too soon. In other words, I'm picky.

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