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Topic: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

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  1. #1

    Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    At the Sonar Forum, someone's posted about a problem he's having. When he adds tempo changes to a project, he's getting a broken up sound. This is with live MIDI tracks, not bounced tracks. The problem has been traced to Altiverb, someone saying that this is a known issue.

    DPDAN - I thought maybe you could shed light on that?

    Here's the thread:

    TEMPO CHANGE ISSUE

    If you see this, Dan, and post a reply, I could pass it on to the user at the Sonar Forum if you'd rather not have to sign up there so you can post.

    I thought this info could also be useful to Garritan users who have Altiverb.

    Randy B.

  2. #2

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    I am NOT that guru, but I had this also. I noticed the following:

    - panning the instrument hard to the left
    - panning the Altiverb bus also to the left
    - setting the stage at NON stereo but the speakers left-and-middle

    may give you a tremolo sound because of echoeing. It also depends on the impuls file you use.

    I solved this by

    a: using the stereo stage setup, both speakers at even distance from the walls
    b: not panning the Altiverb bus.

    My two pesetas,

    Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Thanks for the that, Raymond. I bet your post will be helpful to other Altiverb users.

    Have you had problems with the sound when your pieces comes to a tempo change? I listened to this Sonar user's clip, and during the period of going from tempo A to tempo B, the flute in the track was stuttering.

    Someone at Sonar said this is a "known issue" with Altiverb, but I can't verify if that's true.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Indeed, the flutes sounded strange in this examples. I never had that Altiverb problem when changing tempo and I do that a lot. I've read the original message and further, maybe it is the effect of using Altiverb which is still 32 bits in a 64 ambience. And Altlverb is NOT tempo aware in the sense that you cannot set anywhere which tempo to follow.

    Altiverb is so far tempo aware, that it is an echo-chamber and all mathematics are done to accomodate the ambience one chooses, so when you do it wrong there may be some strange echo, but this one is completely different. It is NOT an echoe. It is some sort of reiteration, which can be caused by programming errors or combination of buffers, ASIO, sample lengths, drivers, or else.

    Since there is some inflation as I write,

    my five cents,

    Raymond

  5. #5

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Thanks for the new post, Raymond - I'm glad you took a look at the Sonar thread and listened to the user's sound clip. Interesting you haven't heard this particular problem. I agree it sounds like a reiteration, very much like what audio can sound like when it's been sliced up and one is trying to make a tempo change. That's why on first post on that thread I asked if he was talking about bounced audio - sure sounds that way to me. There's a limit to how natural audio can sound when you start using tricks like Audio Snap to change its original tempo.

    But he says that's live playback. So - let us see if DPDAN finds this thread and offers some advice.

    Thanks again, Raymond.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    At the Sonar Forum, someone's posted about a problem he's having. When he adds tempo changes to a project, he's getting a broken up sound. This is with live MIDI tracks, not bounced tracks. The problem has been traced to Altiverb, someone saying that this is a known issue.

    DPDAN - I thought maybe you could shed light on that?

    Here's the thread:

    TEMPO CHANGE ISSUE

    If you see this, Dan, and post a reply, I could pass it on to the user at the Sonar Forum if you'd rather not have to sign up there so you can post.

    I thought this info could also be useful to Garritan users who have Altiverb.

    Randy B.
    Hello Randy,

    Whilst waiting for Dan to reply I thought I would take a look at this as I've never ever had any such problem with Altiverb. I'm really surprised at the claim that this is a known issue with altiverb.

    Here are some examples I've hastily thrown together.

    (a) Flute with three tempo changes without Altiverb mp3.

    (b) Flute with three tempo changes with Altiverb mp3.

    (c) Sonar's PRV Tempo View showing the tempo changes jpg.

    One possible explanation is that the original poster in the sonar forums drew in his tempo change in the flute track only. Would he/she need to draw this in every track or, alternatively apply tempo change markings to the full score in Sonar, or shouldn't this be necessary. I haven't had time to try this just yet.

    Whatever the case, as you can hear and see from my examples there is no problem with Altiverb and tempo changes if they are appled correctly ..... unless I've misunderstood or am missing something.

    I hope this is of some help.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  7. #7

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Michael--what a most excellent reply.

    This is so great that you made some demos to show your findings. You've clearly shown that not only is this Altiverb behavior not known to you, but it's demonstrably not happening when you use it.

    I can't figure out from that Sonar thread what the OP is doing, but there has to be something incorrect in his procedure.

    "...One possible explanation is that the original poster in the Sonar forums drew in his tempo change in the flute track only. Would he/she need to draw this in every track or, alternatively apply tempo change markings to the full score in Sonar, or shouldn't this be necessary..."

    No, it isn't possible to have a tempo which is unique to one track. Tempo is strictly a universal control which applies to all tracks in a project. Interesting guess though. He wouldn't only not need to do the tempo changes in every track, no such function is even possible.

    Nothing else has developed on that thread, but I'll report your findings, the ones I can confirm by listening with my own ears. Based on your post, tempo changes shouldn't be effecting the track in this adverse way.

    Raymond, maybe you're on to something when you said, "...maybe it is the effect of using Altiverb which is still 32 bits in a 64..."

    Altiverb is supposed to be bridged by either Sonar's Bitbridge, or the 3rd party Jbridge, but who knows if it's doing the job thoroughly?

    Thanks again, Michael and Raymond.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post

    No, it isn't possible to have a tempo which is unique to one track. Tempo is strictly a universal control which applies to all tracks in a project. Interesting guess though. He wouldn't only not need to do the tempo changes in every track, no such function is even possible.

    Randy
    I once made this mistake. I had the tracks bounced and decided to correct another with some tempo changes. Bounced it again and the whole lot was way out of line. Only under those circumstances one can have different tempi, but the result is: chaos.

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    Hi guys!

    guru... he he he
    It is a strange claim that it's a known issue because Altiverb runs in real time, and would not be affected by tempo changes... how weird that claim is.

    hmmmm, I wonder if he has posted it on the Audio Ease forum?

    I'm looking now...

  10. #10

    Re: Altiverb question for our resident Altiverb guru, DPDAN

    From the Audio Ease forum, I just saw this post, but there is no recognition of a "known problem" with Altiverb and Sonar. At least nobody else has complained about tempo changes causing Altiverb to mess up. Of course there are people on there still screaming for a 64 bit version.

    peregrine
    AE Newbie

    Posts: 9
    Gender:
    Re: 64 bit Vista - 64 bit SONAR compatibility
    Reply #14 - 07 19 2007 at 12:18:22 Quote A problem showed up. I have a partially completed project to which I started making tempo changes. Altiverb is running on two audio channels in SONAR 8.5.3 64 bit producer with a Delta 1010LT audio card. The audio is corrupted for the time interval during which the tempo is changing. As soon as the tempo flat lines, the audio is fine. It's not corrected by bouncing the tracks. So, I'm back to running a parallel 32 bit system just to use Altiverb. What a colossal two year pain in the neck this has been. I hope V7 fixes this.

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