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Topic: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

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  1. #1

    Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Hi,

    After watching Eric's and Diego's inspiring videos demonstrating Live Mode, I've been exploring the various Multis a lot more and generated some useful ideas from jamming/improvising, especially with the new Latch Mode.
    The problem is, I can't figure out how to use or record the stuff I'm hearing! If I record-enable an audio track to simply record all the audio coming out of Omni (as a reminder), as soon I press play/record in Logic, all the patterns playing in Live Mode stop.

    I know that if I planned in advance and used Multis (with Live Mode off), I could simply record each of the 8 parts on its own midi channel, but that's not what I'm referring to. It's about capturing that never-quite-the-same moment of inspiration when improvising in Live Mode. In Latch Mode particularly, it's easy to build up a nice polyphonic texture of Arpeggiated patterns with unusual intervals and clusters; trying to recreate that exactly after it's 'lost' is virtually impossible.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks

    Steve

  2. #2
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    I've been exploring 2 different methods of doing this but my methods involve using 2 pcs.
    Also, I've not concluded my testing and haven't yet arrived at a reliable method that givens me the control that I really want.

    The 2 PCs:
    The host PC is where Omni is hosted.
    The second PC is where my DAW software is installed and where I record the midi
    ( being sent to Omni using MidiOverLan ) and record the audio returning from Omni.

    The first method is to just record a summed stereo pair of the full output of the Omni live performance. That's easy. I've done many long 8+ minute performances, but the problem is fixing a wrong note or changing mix levels.

    I'm almost positive that since Omni needs to receive midi in omni mode, when using live mode, that controllers added on a second pass, for mixing might be useless so using midi events ( inserted after the initial performance ) and trying to render a more mixed version of the live performance on a second pass probably will not work. I haven't proven that to myself yet.

    The second method requires a host for Omni that will output 8 stereo pairs of audio tracks. I've been trying it with fair results.
    I just need more time to test both methods.

    Key switching and latched are what seem to be the best option for me when controlling the layers. I just have to keep an eye on the Omni interface to see where the sounds are.

  3. #3

    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    The simplest approach would be to use midi to control live mode, using either notes or controllers, and record the midi instead of recording audio.

    - Glenn
    Glenn O
    Spectrasonics

  4. #4
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    The simplest approach would be to use midi to control live mode, using either notes or controllers, and record the midi instead of recording audio.

    - Glenn
    I'm almost positive that since Omni needs to receive midi in omni mode, when using live mode, that controllers added on a second pass, for mixing, might be useless, so using midi events ( inserted after the initial performance ) and trying to render a more mixed version of the live performance on a second pass, probably will not work. I haven't proven that to myself yet.

    So how would we manipulate the volume of the layers if they're not recognizing midi channels?

  5. #5

    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    I think you're making this too complicated. Record your Live mode performance on channel 1. If you have midi learns on other channels, simply record those on subsequent passes. Your host should be set to forward the midi events to Omnisphere without altering the channel, and set the channel from your midi controller. It just works, no thinking required :-).

    - Glenn
    Glenn O
    Spectrasonics

  6. #6

    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    The simplest approach would be to use midi to control live mode, using either notes or controllers, and record the midi instead of recording audio.

    - Glenn
    Thanks. That works great if you're recording midi constantly while jamming.
    Serendipity being what it is though, it looks like we need to use an audio method like Steve_Karl's to capture those good moments that so often happen _out_ of record. (e.g. Eric P's in the 1.3 update video; he wasn't in record, had he wanted to save it. [assuming he's mortal that is, and couldn't perfectly re-play it, which, er, somewhat weakens my point ;-)] )

    Thanks anyway for the replies, at least I know I'n not missing anything obvious

    Steve

  7. #7
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    So live mode will recognize 8 different individual midi channels and be able to route them to each different layer which then only receives it's own assigned channel?
    Or are you suggesting to switch out of live mode to do the second pass mix?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    I think you're making this too complicated. Record your Live mode performance on channel 1. If you have midi learns on other channels, simply record those on subsequent passes. Your host should be set to forward the midi events to Omnisphere without altering the channel, and set the channel from your midi controller. It just works, no thinking required :-).

    - Glenn
    My only concern is being able to control the volumes of the 8 ( all eight and individually ) individual layers after the initial performance and to repair or change any notes.

    So far, going by what you're suggested the only possibility I can imagine is having 8 distinct different physical controllers that I midi learn to the little volume controls under the layers in live mode.

    I only have 4 assignable faders on my keyboard. Also, writing the mix changes 1 at a time and with that limited resolution and control ... ( ugh )

    It still seems much more efficient to capture 8 stereo pairs of audio while recording the initial midi track and during the initial performance.

    Any notes needed fixed could be re triggered for that particular section, provided my key switches are properly set, which probably means starting the pass from the beginning again. Not a problem.
    Just set Sonar to auto punch in and out and record the fixed area to a second set of 16 tracks that are routed to a bus called Pass 2 and cross fade the buses Pass 1 and Pass 2 to dodge the area that needed replaced.

    Maybe what you're suggesting is the easiest way to do it, but you're not being clear enough with your description of the process for me to understand.

  9. #9

    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Steve555 asked: how to record a live mode performance? The answer is: just record the midi that you play. There is no need to use a second PC just to record a live mode performance :-).

    Then he asked a follow up question: how do you record without pressing the record button? Some hosts have a feature sometimes called retrospective record which allows you to record even when you forgot to press the record button.

    You seem to be asking a question about mixing. I don't understand your question, but mixing is not affected by live mode. You can mix 8 parts in live mode just like you would mix them if you weren't using live mode.

    - Glenn
    Glenn O
    Spectrasonics

  10. #10
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a way to capture Omni's Live Mode output?

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post

    You can mix 8 parts in live mode just like you would mix them if you weren't using live mode.

    - Glenn
    I would use CC11, on individual distinct channels, to mix 8 parts if I weren't in live mode.
    However, live mode only responds to midi omni mode ( one channel only ) as far as I know.

    Also, I somehow mistakenly assumed I was part of a conversation.
    I'm sorry for intruding.

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