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Topic: MP3 String Examples

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  1. #1

    MP3 String Examples

    In response to all the talk of Gary\'s new string library, which I eagerly await, I was wondering if there is anywhere I could post a couple of examples of string work.

    I\'d like to show you an example of where I feel I have the largest problems getting things to sound convincing...and ask opinions as to whether Gary\'s or the Vitous library would handle this kind of thing the best...I have a feeling Gary\'s will be the one....Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    There is a User Demo section at this website taht you can upload to. It can take some time to get the demos up tho.

    Most people upload a piece to a section on their own webspace Many Service providers \"give\" you some webspace with general service

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    Really...I am an Idiot

  3. #3

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    What things are you having trouble getting realistic? I for one wouldn\'t mind hearing some discussions about how everybody handles certain problems they encounter from a sequencing standpoint rather than a \"this hard drive doesn\'t work with this mobo\" standpoint.
    It would help us all to have a thread full of sequencing and tweaking tips to help achieve realism - the ongoing pursuit.

    Gav

  4. #4

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gav:
    What things are you having trouble getting realistic? I for one wouldn\'t mind hearing some discussions about how everybody handles certain problems they encounter from a sequencing standpoint rather than a \"this hard drive doesn\'t work with this mobo\" standpoint.

    Gav
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    My biggest gripe is finding a beautiful legato violin section for those huge, sweeping melodies that sail over the whole orchestra. Now there have been times when I\'ve pulled it off quite convincingly, but the next time, with the same samples, it sounds synthetic.

    This is the weakness I hear in every mp3 I\'ve heard, I can tell they are sampled in two seconds. The low strings are never a problem...it\'s those darned high lines that scream \"fake\" that kill me.

    Thoughts?

  5. #5

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    The reason those high sweeping suckers sound crappy is that a lot of times the player doesn\'t re-strike the string, they just put a different finger down.
    I\'ve never come across a String Sample that accurately reproduces that, so the only workaround (which works but is tedious as hell) is to do 2 things:
    1. overlap all the notes by 400 - 750 ticks or so (most people know that one I think)
    2. (and this is the one that I rarely have the patience or time for considering most of the time I\'m just doing mock-ups which will later be played by real people anyway) Manually insert tiny dips in volume to obscure the attack of the note creating the technical illusion that the samples are actually starting after the attack portion of the sound: ergo, creating the orchestration illusion that the strings are playing legato.
    This is a huge pain in the *** but it does make a fairly dramatic difference once you get the hang of it.
    I\'m willing to bet though that after about an hour of this, you\'ll get fed up and resume searching for the perfect string library again.
    To say nothing of all the controller data you\'ll be trying to cram through your USB cable.

    Gav

  6. #6

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    Gav-

    that legato type sound is near impossible to get with ensemble patches. 22 players \"hammering on\" a note isn\'t the same as a volume dip or an overlap. Even the \"legato\" patches in AO don\'t sound to good to my ears.... actually They aren\'t bad IF you do the volume dip...but then the string samples in AO aren\'t \"expressive\" in that upper range anyway...so it\'d be missing the vibrato.

    Another good (actually great) technique is to layer in a \"solo\" instrument sample over the section (It sounds like you do this in atleast one of youe songs). Dan Dean put up a pretty impressive demo up a few months ago with him layering his strings over otehr ensemble patches and it sounded pretty good...a little too upfront..for my taste but still really expressive.

    That extra overexagerated vibrato you get in solo string samples help bring a mood to ensemble patches that I like....its even better when used sparingly....problem is when you take it out of mixing with current ensemble string samples available...the strings sound dull again...

    Another thing missing are \"slides\". Pitch bends just dont work with ensemble strings too well. They REALLY help solo strings and horns...but never ensembles. Again layering a solo string instrument lets you do the slides on it and hide the \"fake\" sounding pitch shift on the ensemble patches.
    My problem with AO was creating fast runs that sounded realisstic on their own.

    Ultimate strings helped out a little.....but only sometimes....in fact listening to some of my old stuff with what I thought was ok at the time is pretty wretched now..

    Hiding runs behind woodwinds or mudding them up with overlaps and parallel octaves helped...

    I\'ll refrain from GOS comments (other than this) on this one


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    Really...I am an Idiot

  7. #7

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>This is the weakness I hear in every mp3 I\'ve heard, I can tell they are sampled in two seconds. The low strings are never a problem...it\'s those darned high lines that scream \"fake\" that kill me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yep, that is the same problem I have.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Even the \"legato\" patches in AO don\'t sound to good to my ears.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    They don\'t seem very \"legato\" to me. The note changes are still really abrupt.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Another good (actually great) technique is to layer in a \"solo\" instrument sample over the section (It sounds like you do this in atleast one of youe songs). Dan Dean put up a pretty impressive demo up a few months ago with him layering his strings over otehr ensemble patches and it sounded pretty good...a little too upfront..for my taste but still really expressive<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I agree. This is what I do (actually, I got the idea from Dan\'s demo.) I had one piece that I played for someone where I hadn\'t layered Dan\'s solo violin all the way through yet and my friend stopped me half way through and said \"wait, all of a sudden the strings sound really fake, what did you do?\" We had just gone past the point I had gotten to in my layering project, so I knew it must be working.

  8. #8

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    Totally true, Idiot. (god that sounds hilarious) Mixing solo patches in with ensembles really helps expressiveness. I do usually do that to try and remedy the lack of feeling but obviously it doesn\'t always do the trick, especially if the string parts are exposed.
    I have to catch myself when I notice my orchestrations are getting too thick just because I\'m trying to hide a bad sample.
    Let us all pray for Giga Strings and hope it lives up to the hype we have created!

    Gav

  9. #9

    Re: MP3 String Examples

    In all honesty I don\'t thin anything will live up to the personal hype that one wants to believe in, especially if its based off of other peoples experiences.

    This doesn\'t mean I dont think GOS is very useful, in fact I think its very comprehensive. which is one of its strongest points.

    Anyhow Layering solo strings will probably always be a strong sampling technique, possibly even more with the new DD SS \"ensemble\" patches or even layering XSAMPLE on top. It helps with nuances.

    Then you add on top of it EQ,...reverb..blah blah blah and you get back to the point where real strings are better for the nuances....maybe not the recording or the sound or the playing...but nuances...

    anyhow. I\'ve come to terms with real strings always sounding more realistic than sampled strings....I mean...they are REAL...

    Its not about searching for the perfect sting samples anymore, but more about what one considers the most useful.

    I applaud Gary and Tom\'s effort with GOS, in fact I applaud Gary\'s ideals and his efforts to find those ideals that both he and his sample users have. This I believe will continue through time which is something I appreciate fully. Its also what I applaud Nick Pheonix for and Dan Dean for. They all listen and want to get us the best. I don\'t believe it will all happen over night but I believe they are willing to try as long as we support them. which is why these guys offer up upgrade options and other benefits for helping them help us.


    and blah blah blah blah....I just saw Depeche Mode live..so I\'m in a mood :P... a good one tho ....ok..a good, sad, energetic...depressed mood ...damn 80\'s depression rock

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    Really...I am an Idiot

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