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Topic: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

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  1. #1

    Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Could someone please help me with adding vibrato to an instrument. I know this can be done when inputting from a MIDI keyboard with aftertouch but I am working through notation in Finale then taking this into Sonar.

    I can't see a way of doing this within Finale but I know this can be done in Sonar, I just don't know how.

    I am thinking of the new harmonica instrument in JABB3 which has no vibrato by default. Can someone please give me a step-by-step on how to add this aftertouch in Sonar.

    As always, I would be very grateful for help with this.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hiya, Michael - MUCH easier question than the last one about disengaging Sonar's MIDI controls from Aria. I'm glad you asked that question - I learned something in the process.

    Aftertouch - super easy. Without a keyboard that generates it, and that's the case with me too, you just draw in the data in the Piano Roll View.

    I think you're familiar with adding data there?--

    --Piano Roll view.
    --Click the control in the upper left hand corner, not the top one, the second one.
    --In the pop-up, choose "Type" and then you'll see ChanAft - Channel Aftertouch.
    --Now the controller pane below the main window is for drawing in your data. If the controller pane isn't visible, hover your mouse over the controls above the main window. One of those close to the center is for turning that lane on and off.

    TIP--In case you don't know. Work with the grid OFF when working MIDI data in the PRV. Hold down Ctrl as you click and move your mouse. That's how you get continuous waves of data going up and down like you need.

    I could say more, but that gets you there. If you Do need more help with the PRV, just lemme know.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hi, Michael,

    Two choices in Finale, one ugly and the other uglier. You can use the MIDI tool to add continuous controller data to the track, or you can define articulations that adjust the MIDI CC value.

    Like I said, ugly and uglier - take yer choice which is which.

    Of course, I might be full of it, and hopefully if I am a more experienced Finale user can come along and put me in my... educate us both.

  4. #4

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hi Michael and All,

    Here's my solution for working with vibrato in Finale. It's not as flexible as working with continuously varying data, but it may meet your needs and is really quite effective, clean, and easy.

    First, I create several Text Expressions. CC17 controls the vibrato speed. So, I start with a text expression, such as VS 58, which sets the playback value of CC17 to 58. You'll want to experiment with the desired value since it depends on the instrument and context. I typically only use one VS setting per instrument voice, which I set in the first measure.

    Next, create a text expression for Vibrato Intensity. I start with VI 0, which turns vibrato off. On the text expression playback tab, Finale calls aftertouch "Channel Pressure" and so I define VI 0 to have a playback value of 0. Then I create several text expressions to give me a range of intensity, VI 70, VI 80, VI 100, etc. each time, setting the Channel Pressure playback value to the respective value: 70, 80, 100.

    Tip: Once you create the text expressions, consider exporting them to a text expression library so that you can import them into each new score.

    Once your text expressions are created, adding vibrato is as easy as inserting the text expression VI 80 at the desired location in the measure. Then insert VI 0 to turn the vibrato off.

    Ken

  5. #5

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hello Rob and Ken and many thanks for your replies. It's much appreciated.

    I will start experimenting with creating my own expressions and see how it goes.

    Thanks.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  6. #6

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hello Randy,

    Many thanks for replying, it's much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hiya, Michael - MUCH easier question than the last one about disengaging Sonar's MIDI controls from Aria. I'm glad you asked that question - I learned something in the process.
    Yes, that was a good outcome. I have a feeling that question may arise a few times in the coming weeks. It's good to have the solution at hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Aftertouch - super easy. Without a keyboard that generates it, and that's the case with me too, you just draw in the data in the Piano Roll View.

    I think you're familiar with adding data there?--

    --Piano Roll view.
    --Click the control in the upper left hand corner, not the top one, the second one.
    --In the pop-up, choose "Type" and then you'll see ChanAft - Channel Aftertouch.
    --Now the controller pane below the main window is for drawing in your data. If the controller pane isn't visible, hover your mouse over the controls above the main window. One of those close to the center is for turning that lane on and off.

    TIP--In case you don't know. Work with the grid OFF when working MIDI data in the PRV. Hold down Ctrl as you click and move your mouse. That's how you get continuous waves of data going up and down like you need.

    I could say more, but that gets you there. If you Do need more help with the PRV, just lemme know.

    Randy
    Thanks for this step-by-step. everything fitted into place and it's all working.

    What I need to know now is how to control the vibrato and to make it as realistic as possible. As a violinist I understand entirely that the term 'realistic vibrato' means different things to different people and it's not my intention to open up this debate in this thread. I just need to know how it's done in sonar. Particularly how to:

    (a) Apply vibrato to selected notes rather than every note in the track.
    (b) Increase the vibrato on a held note as a player might do in real performance.

    With regard to (a) I tried selecting notes then adding the control but it still affected every other note. With regard to (b) I've not found any way of doing this but I believe it can be done.

    Thanks again Randy and here's hoping what I am trying to achieve is possible in Sonar and as straight forward as the steps in your original reply.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  7. #7

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Good, Michael, I'm glad my outline about Aftertouch in Sonar was helpful.

    But I have a quick and easy answer for you about this specific desire to do vibrato realistically with violins in GPO - You can't. I'm sorry, I thought you knew that. The woodwinds can have their vibrato controlled at a varying rate, but the violin samples are of notes being played with vibrato--it's already there and can't be changed.

    So the reason you're getting what seems to be your vibrato applied to all the notes--is because that's the only way those GPO violins can be played.

    It's the unfortunately discontinued Garritan Strad which has vibrato control available. The samples are straight, no vibrato, ready for the user to add vibrato as desired--and in the case of that library, it's cc1 that controls the vibrato, cc11 controlling the volume.

    Sorry!

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Hi Michael,

    I agree with Rob: there's ugly and there's uglier. I will show you what works for me in Finale to add vibrato to the Harmonica. The same technique works for adding vibrato to Trumpet, Bassoon, etc. I'm using the '09 version of Finale, but it should be the same with the '10 version. Once you've done this, you can always save this into Finale's libraries so you don't have to go through this every time you want to add vibrato.

    First, you need to create an expression using the expression edit tool. I used a visible N.V. for non vibrato and V. for vibrato just so you can see them, otherwise I normally make them invisible:



    Open the expression tool. Click on the Technique Text then Create Technique Text:



    Type in vibrato for a description, then type V. for the Text. Again, you can use whatever description you want, but this is what I use.



    Click on playback tab. Select Channel Pressure for the type. Select Execute Shape for the effect. Then click on the "select" to get into the Execute Shapes. This will enable you can choose the shape you need for the effect.



    You should have a selection of shapes to choose from. Pick whatever one works for you (in my case it was the one listed below). You can also edit the shape however you want.



    Repeat the above to create N.V. (no vibrato) with one exception. Click Set to Value and put "0" in for the value:



    There is one last thing you need to do in order to get as realistic a vibrato sound as possible. Click on the Time Signature Tool and click on the first measure:



    1. Select Options so you can open up the bottom window. 2. Select Use a Different Time Signature for Display. 3. Change the Number of Beats to 16 and the Beat Duration to 16 (that's if you are using a 4/4 time signature, which I am in this example).



    What this does is allows you to click on V. and N.V. every 16th note in the measure. Otherwise without doing this it will default to every quarter note when you add this to the measure. Maybe someone here on the forum has a better idea how to do this, but this is the only way I could figure out how this can work.

    Here is my Finale file if you want to download it:
    http://www.box.net/shared/y19x4brnmh

    Here is an MP3 of the above file:
    http://www.box.net/shared/gka0fcguzd

    This was the best I could do with Finale. I'm sure, with some more work, it can sound better. I hope this helps, Michael.

    Gary A.
    Serenity Musician Productions (Gary A.)

    Lenovo ThinksStation S30, Windows 10 Professional 64-bit, 20 gig ram, 2 terabyte hd., M-Audio Fast Track, Finale25, Sonar Professional

  9. #9

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    Quote Originally Posted by serenitymusician View Post
    I will show you what works for me in Finale to add vibrato to the Harmonica.
    Gary A.
    Well done, Gary. Thanks for the tip about the expression shape and key signature resolution.

    -- Ken

  10. #10

    Re: Adding Aftertouch Afterwards - Sonar or Finale or Both

    --wow, Gary - What an excellent tute, complete with all those screen shots. As always when a Finale user is explaining the acrobatics they go through to squeeze out some music, I am in awe.

    ---running back to Sonar where all I need is my mouse where I can draw this stuff in to my heart's content. That's enough for my lil brain to wrap around!

    Randy

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