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Topic: Daily usage of Finale

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  1. #1

    Daily usage of Finale

    Of course I can download the "demo"-version, but before I'll do that the following issues:

    Enharmonics

    1. Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
    2. Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
    3. Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
    4. Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
    5. Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)

    Trills

    1. Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
    2. Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.

    Glissando

    1. Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
    2. Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
    3. Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic

    Rests

    1. Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
    2. Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
    3. Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;

    Slurs

    1. Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
    2. Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finalye this?

    Dynamics

    1. Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
    2. Does Finaly has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
    3. Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff

    Accents and other stuff
    Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction
    Formatting the page
    Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?
    Using other libraries than Garritan

    1. Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
    2. Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

    Exporting audio
    Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?
    Midi settings
    Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes?
    Now you say, RTFM. That is true, but where can I download that manual? I've seen some video stuff on Finale, but most of the issues above aren't highlighted. It is like the demo-version of Hell, Bill Gates saw (that well know joke).

    Maybe you say, why don't you try it, that downloadable demo-version? I should/will/do but when you are so kind to answer these questions then I don't have to pollute my system with all sorts of remaining registry entries and orphaned .dll's which are never removed by the installation programs.

    With regards,

    Raymond - still at sabattical, but preparing for the near future of my muisc making.

  2. #2

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Enharmonics

    1. Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
    2. Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
    3. Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
    4. Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
    5. Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)
    Yes to all of these. You don't have to "untrigger" an accidental after applying it if you do so with the keyboard (S = sharp, F = flat, N = natural). If you set a key signature, notes entered by mouse input will default to the accidentals of that key.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Trills

    1. Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
    2. Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.
    Not to my knowledge, though there are several types of trills available (mordent etc.). Human Playback options affect the sound of trills, i.e. Baroque trills sound different from Standard trills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Glissando

    1. Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
    2. Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
    3. Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic
    Yes, I don't think so, and yes. Trombone and violin glissandos (among other) use portamento by default.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Rests

    1. Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
    2. Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
    3. Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;
    You can fill an entire piece with whole rests, but I'm not sure about other durations. Incomplete measures can be filled, but the durational divisions won't necessarily be to your liking. If you work with multiple voices you have to manage rests for each of them. However, you can hide rests in other voices from display. Also, you don't need to enter rests after notes in other voices, only before them. That is, you can leave rests unentered at the ends of measures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Slurs

    1. Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
    2. Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finalye this?
    If you're working with multiple voices you must enter slurs for each voice. Cross-page slurring is not a problem. Double click, hold and drag from anywhere in the score to anywhere else to slur everything between (if you have a beginning and ending note).

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Dynamics


    1. Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
    2. Does Finaly has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
    3. Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff
    Piand grand staves automatically recognize dynamics placed in the top staff; however, I've experienced a lot of bugs with this. If you don't want both hands at the same volume, you can place separate dynamics for each, as well. You can't enter values for hairpins. They default to whatever dynamics precede and follow them. If there are no dynamics then they perform a relative increase or decrease in volume (a p to f, I think).

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Accents and other stuff
    Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction
    Formatting the page
    Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?

    Again, when working with multiple voices you must handle the articulations for each one separately. No, formatting isn't affected by your printer. I'm not sure what you mean, but you would have to manually format your document to print the way you want it to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Using other libraries than Garritan

    1. Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
    2. Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

    Exporting audio
    Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?
    Midi settings
    Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes?
    You can use any VST instrument (or AU instrument on Macs). Finale will not react intelligently to articulations with other libraries, however. That requires manual programming. Yes, your other tracks will play during real-time keyboard note entry. Audio export can be changed by muting or soloing tracks. I don't think there's any way to change something like velocity input.

  3. #3

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Of course I can download the "demo"-version, but before I'll do that the following issues:

    Enharmonics

    1. Inputting from MIDI keyboard. Suppose a piece in D major, it has two sharps. I input a C# on my keyboard, will it be notated as C# or as Db;
    2. Inputting manually, via mouse. When I need an extra sharp I must type in some "triggering-key" for the sharp. Is the scope of the triggering only on that note in question or do I have to "untrigger" it before inputting the next note;
    3. Inputting manually - mouse - do I need that "triggering" on notes that are by nature sharps/flats set by the key of the piece;
    4. Can I select a block of notes and tell Finale to apply enharmonic defaults to all notes within that block?
    5. Suppose an octave (piano) A and I want to make it A#, can I do that with only one instruction or do I have to set the sharp at both A's (so two instructions needed)

    1. as said previously, if a key signature is given, notes automatically default to the appropriate ones. there is an option to alter to different defaults. accidentals can be enharmonically toggled easily with the [9] key.
    2. I rarely use a mouse to enter notes.. actually, i never use one. if you have a MIDI keyboard, you won't WANT to use a mouse.
    3. as said, key signature automatically gives the right accidentals.
    4. yes
    5. one instruction: [9]

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Trills

    1. Can I assign the trill speed and the moment of trill starts;
    2. Can I assign the nature of the trill - a second, third or else.

    1. not really, trills start on the note, exactly as they should. human playback takes care of humanizing the trill playback quite efficiently.2. trills are, by their very nature, 2nds. yes, you can notate either major or minor 2nd trills by using the appropriate articulations.
    A 3rd is not a trill, it is a tremolo. yes you can create a tremolo across a 3rd (or other interval) that will playback properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Glissando

    1. Can I tell the glissando to do this only on white keys;
    2. Can I set the starting moment of the glissando;
    3. Can I set some property to the glissando to make a trombone glissando more realistic/a violin glissando more realistic

    1. depends on the instrument. for keyboards, yes. other instruments will default to chromatic (sliding) gliss.
    2. as any notation, the gliss starts on the note to which it is assigned. it will play back as written. so yes.
    3. glisses are one of the weaker aspects of using a sample library. it has nothing to do with Finale's playback. It is more the nature of the sound being generated. I've had good luck producing a rather convincing trombone gliss by layering two different trombone sounds: one plays a single short held note, while the second does the gliss.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Rests

    1. Is it possible to select the whole piece and tell to fill in all empty bars/measures with the appropriate rests;
    2. Does that automated rest filling procedure follow the rules that after some eigth notes (incomplete beat/bar/measure) the first rest is another 8th value and the rest of the measure is filled with augmenting rest values (you know, first that 8th rest symbol, then a quarter rest, then if needed the half value;
    3. Do I have to put in rests on more voices separately when I have a multi-voice staff or is Finale clever enough to set/display only one rest when both voices don't have notes at that beat;

    1. by default, Finale fills all measures with rests. there is no need to enter rests in empty measures.
    2. the rule is that if a measure is empty, you place a whole note rest, regardless of what actual duration the measure has. ie: in 3/4 an empty measure has a 4-beat rest.
    3. you need to place rests as you go when entering music. if you enter in different layers, you enter rests in each layer. notationally, you are required to place BOTH rests, unless it is a keyboard part, and even in that case, it is only acceptable in certain very rare instances. Finale is a powerful program, it WILL let you write almost whatever you want, whether it is correct notation or not. The more "correct" the notation, the higher the probability that Finale will notate it automatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Slurs

    1. Setting a slur (legato) on divisi for strings is this just one action or should I set two slurs for both voices and does Finale display two slurs
    2. Setting a slur across pages, is sometimes very hard to do. How does Finale this?

    1. Finale displays as many slurs as you want. if the divisi is in two layers, then it is best to place slurs in both layers.
    2. You work in Scroll View, which does not use pages, it is just one continuous stave that stretches out infinitely to the right. this is the preferred method for initial note entry as page layout should be one of your final acts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Dynamics

    1. Mainly for piano scores. Both hands can each play separate voices - often done - should I set e.g. an "f" separately for both voices or does this "f" apply to all voices
    2. Does Finale has hairpin settings where you can put in the beginning value, the midvalue and the endvalue. Overture gives you a graph which you can alter/draw yourself. By the way, Overture isn't very strong in maintaining the dynamic settings.
    3. Can I myself decide to drag the dynamics up or down the staff

    1. generally, dynamics apply to all voices, but they can be set independently.
    2. No. a hairpin goes from the starting dynamic to the target dynamic. generally, it is pointless to specify a mid-point dynamic.
    3. graphically? yes, of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Accents and other stuff
    Two voices (divisi) on violin staff. Accents can be placed just above this "chord" , above and below for both notes individually or in just one instruction
    articulations can be placed twice on a single note (the 2nd one needs to be manually dragged). if the divisi is in different layers, Finale automatically places the layer-assigned articulations in the right place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Formatting the page
    Is the formatting following the "driver" specs of the attached printer?
    Formatting is what you see is what you get, generally. Don't forget that Finale is first and foremost an engraving program. It would be pointless for it to NOT print what you see on your screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Using other libraries than Garritan

    1. Is it possible to use other sample libs in Finale and does Finale react on all articulations set in the score at they should. Using GPO a "pizzicato" triggers Fx, but using "Ultimate strings" must trigger a pizzicato effect. Can I do that (maybe with some macro-programming).
    2. Do they also play in real-time when inputting the notes?

    1. Humanplayback can be set to recognize a wide range of different keyswitches. I use Finale with both Garritan products and Xsamples Chamber Orchestra.
    2. Yes. Touch a key on the keyboard, and you hear the instrument for that staff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Exporting audio
    Can I export staff by staff, a group of staffs or must I always export the whole piece to audio?
    Export the whole thing. But there are ways of exporting individual staves. Remember that Finale is not created to render audio as its principle function. If you absolutely do not like the way Finale performs your music, then you can export the MIDI file it generates to a DAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Midi settings
    Is there a way to alter the Midi representation, e.g. velocities of piano strokes?
    you can set the base velocity of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    Now you say, RTFM. That is true, but where can I download that manual? I've seen some video stuff on Finale, but most of the issues above aren't highlighted. It is like the demo-version of Hell, Bill Gates saw (that well know joke).

    Maybe you say, why don't you try it, that downloadable demo-version? I should/will/do but when you are so kind to answer these questions then I don't have to pollute my system with all sorts of remaining registry entries and orphaned .dll's which are never removed by the installation programs.

    With regards,

    Raymond - still at sabattical, but preparing for the near future of my muisc making.

    I use Finale exclusively to create my music. You need only listen to demos of my music to hear how it plays.

    I don't use a DAW. I don't "tweak" my audio in another app.

    Generally speaking, what you hear is what I am also printing and sending to my publisher.

    There are many little "tricks of the trade", such as using invisible articulations or expressions to get the playback exactly the way you like it without cluttering your score with excessive graphics. Invisible items appear on screen only and do not print. They appear generally in 50% density.

    I use a panoply of invisible items to adjust tempo, dynamics, attacks, etc...
    one you are used to it, it's quite simple, really.

    The important thing is not to fuss over the "final performance" NOR the "final score" while you are composing. Get the general idea down. You adjust it later once most of the notes are in place.

  4. #4

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    This was a lot of answering. You don't know how much this helps me.

    Michel, about the trills on piano. Or you must have some "immediate momentum" but a trill on a piano never starts at full speed. The first three or four occurences are used for acceleration. At the other hand, sometimes it augments the performance when the pianist starts slowly (not too slow, depends on the piece) and accelerates to the end, to slow down a bit when the "time is up" preparing for the next sequence.

    As far as my ears don't cheat me, even string players do this ,start slower, accellerate and slow down (a bit) for the next turn. Very subtle, yes, but present.

    For both of you, why did I ask all this? The last couple of days I was working with Notion3 and all of the above "clumsiness" came by. I filled the Notion forum with a lot of questions and finally somebody admitted that "in the next release some of my remarks should be solved".

    To be honest, I am a bit sick of this "money-making-music-industry" with their promises and statements that such or so was achieved with the cooperation of composers, artists, orchestrators, musicians, etc. If this is true (about all those 'giants' cooperating) then they never had some some experience inputting music in a computer, never used MIDI keyboards, never used mice and other pointing stuff. All we @#$users are good for, is the money we spent buying this crap.

    Over the years I spent a lot of useless money and time with notation programs: Noteworthy, Music Maker(something like this), Mozart, Overture, Lilypond (free), Rosegarden for Windows (and even tried it on a Linux box) and now Notion3 (luckily got it cheaper, bundled with some SONAR update). I even tried Finale some time ago, the demo version was very, very crippled and I never got it to work properly.

    You know, promises make the world go round, but they also caused the financial crisis we all suffer today.


    Raymond

  5. #5

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Raymond,

    I understand your frustration and believe me the "promise" of some feature in the "next release" is not unique to music software.

    If I were you I'd download the demo version which as far as I know is fully functional for 30 days. I'm not sure about saving files, etc.

    Then on the subject of trills I believe you can globally tell the HumanPlayback engine how fast you want the trills to sound by defining how many notes per beat you want played back. If a sound has a sampled trill as part of a keyswitched patch, the trill articulation will trigger the sampled trill as in the case of section string patches. But in your example of the piano, I don't think there's a way to have a more "rubato" type of trill. You can also define styles that the humanplayback engine will further interpret markings which may influence this a bit more but I'm not really familiar with the subtleties of those styles.

    Steve Winkler

  6. #6

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Raymond, the issue of trills is also, unfortunately, one of taste.

    Humanplayback in Finale does humanize all trills, starting a bit slower, speeding up, etc... but it may not be the way YOU specifically want it. But then, a live performance might not be the way you want it either. I know that personally, I prefer a trill that has only a very tiny variation in speed between its opening, middle and end.

    The only way to really know how Finale will play trills back for you is to try all the different Humanplayback presets (there are about a dozen presets, from Baroque to 20th century).

    Remember that Finale is, as I said, first and foremost a notation program. Albeit one with tremendous playback capabilities compared to its rivals.

    As for older versions of Finale, it is one software package that has grown exponentially in the last few years. Particularly in the area of playback. The playback you will get from Finale'10 is markedly superior to that which you will get from Finale '05.

    You will never get the fine-detail playback adjustments that you can get from a DAW with Finale. On the other hand, you will never get the perfectly notated score with a DAW that Finale gives you, either.

    Each one has its strengths, and weaknesses.

    I think you know my music and the demos I've posted here. And you know that I work exclusively from within Finale. If at some point you wish me to send you a .MUS file of one of my pieces, I can do so (although I've taken to using Xsamples Chamber Ensemble a great deal for my string sounds).

    By the way, Xsamples uses Kontakt Player, and comes complete with HumanPlayback definitions all ready for Finale. You only need to load the .mus file they supply, and save the preferences for humanplayback. Then any new file you open will have all you need to get XCE to work perfectly.

  7. #7

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    I think I'll give it a try and I can't save files, so I have to do all sorts of testing within the timespan of 12 hrs. Why can't I go on the next day? Now I have to have my computer switched on all night long........ Oh boy, what a world!!!!!

    I had another look at the Finale Music site and to my surprise the shown ARIA player doesn't at all look as mine. Who is cheating who, or is it again a special written for Finale? Or an update they have and we don't.

    Raymond
    [when I have 20 million, I'll start my own company]
    [what a name, great: Crabtree, Québec]

  8. #8
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    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Hi Raymond,

    The Aria Player in Finale was developed specifically for Finale & possibly Sibelius. It does look slightly different (scaled down) however as you have the full blown Aria, you can also host that within Finale.

    Regards

    Derek
    Derek Brodie
    i7 920, 12Gb 1600 DDR3, Win 7 Pro 64 bit
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    VDL:2.5, GPO4, JABB, CoMB, CHH v1.5 & v2
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  9. #9

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Kiltie View Post
    Hi Raymond,

    The Aria Player in Finale was developed specifically for Finale & possibly Sibelius. It does look slightly different (scaled down) however as you have the full blown Aria, you can also host that within Finale.

    Regards

    Derek
    Yes, Derek. Another thing is that when I buy Finale I get Garritan sounds all over again, plus some extra. .... and I already have the GPO....!!!

    Raymond

  10. #10

    Re: Daily usage of Finale

    There are a handful of sounds from JAAB and concert and marching band as well as a few sounds from the world library in the set of sounds that come with Finale and AREN'T a part of GPO.

    Let us know how the experimenting go and we'll be happy to help you along the way so you can make a good and fair evaluation.

    Steve Winkler

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