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Topic: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

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  1. #1

    Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    I am working with Strings only, Violins 1 KS. The longer notes (in time) seem to have a "tremolo" effect, but I looked and looked over and over searching for that tremolo keyswitch, not there though. But still I hear that "phantom" tremolo.

    Or is it the built-in vibrato? Or is something "amplified" by Altiverb?

    Violins1- KS - with Altiverb
    Violins1- KS - without Altiverb

    Both are .Wav files to avoid possibly "filtering" by Mp3.

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    Hi Ray,

    Looked at both after bringing into Cubase. There is a Tremolo going on at something like 10 hz rate (amplitude modulation). It is different in appearance in the altiverb version (also this version has larger overall amplitude). I am wondering, if this is a sectional, maybe the slight vibrato of all the players cuases a net AM modulation as frequencies re-inforce/cancel over time causing a beat frequency of 10 hz? One might expect this to happen to a worse extent after reverb?

    Also, one might expect this to be a natural sound of a sectional when all the players are playing the same frequency (unison) or octave doubling?

    John

  3. #3

    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    Quote Originally Posted by John Rice View Post
    Hi Ray,

    Looked at both after bringing into Cubase. There is a Tremolo going on at something like 10 hz rate (amplitude modulation). It is different in appearance in the altiverb version (also this version has larger overall amplitude). I am wondering, if this is a sectional, maybe the slight vibrato of all the players cuases a net AM modulation as frequencies re-inforce/cancel over time causing a beat frequency of 10 hz? One might expect this to happen to a worse extent after reverb?

    Also, one might expect this to be a natural sound of a sectional when all the players are playing the same frequency (unison) or octave doubling?

    John
    I have no solution for this. Tried several different Altiverb IR's and all have this "effect" except the Concertgebouw IR's. At least I don't hear it anymore.

    Doing this I also concluded that most of the IR's (for recording studio's and concert halls) are worthless for "big" orchestras, except the Mozart Hall, Haydn Hall and of course that TODD-AO studio, but the last one had that "tremolo" effect.

    Maybe this tremolo effect is what you described, some accumulated AM modulation. Conclusion: I will try doing things with the Concertgebouw IR's.

    Raymond

  4. #4
    Senior Member
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    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    G’day,

    GPO is very easy to use and produces good sounds with minimal midi editing most of the time.

    I think the vibrato has been deliberately added to break up the monotony of the string section’s sound. This may be ok for many users, but interferes at times with serious work.

    The vibrato is not at a fixed frequency but changes over the range of pitches.

    12 players in a section are totally unlikely to produce such an interference pattern (phasing).

    Raymond, I think we are just stuck with it.


    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  5. #5

    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    Quote Originally Posted by sonata5920 View Post
    The vibrato is not at a fixed frequency but changes over the range of pitches. 12 players in a section are totally unlikely to produce such an interference pattern (phasing).Herbert
    That is not fixed is something I already noticed. I happens only with ntoes between C4 and G4 and only in that sequence (which occurs twice in the whole piece, with different CC#1 values and velocities). Maybe it happens also at other note ranges but then it is not as noticeable as now.

    By the way it is the first time I ever heard this happen.

    Hopefully, your battery driven heart-beat doesn't have that interference or phasing patteren. Is everything working ok, inside?

    Raymond

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Just north of Sydney
    Posts
    272

    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    G’day Raymond,

    Thank you for your concern about my very Personal Computer implant. Last Friday, I had parked myself in the nearby cardiac workshop. Two technicians checked out my implant. They were able to read the recent cardiac history recorded in the memory of my implant. All has been well. I feel good.

    If you play notes directly on the Aria interface keyboard, you can hear the modulation of a low frequency over notes. In a recording of this, you can see the result in an audio editor. Just looking at level meters will also show the amplitude variations.

    Have they used some very old musicians to record the samples, musicians who were trembling and could no longer produce even bowing? Perhaps not. The lower notes have a lower frequency superimposed, compared to the higher notes. Also all 12 members of the section shake at the same rate.


    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  7. #7

    Re: Strange effect or is it the built-in vibrato

    Quote Originally Posted by sonata5920 View Post
    Have they used some very old musicians to record the samples, musicians who were trembling and could no longer produce even bowing? Perhaps not. The lower notes have a lower frequency superimposed, compared to the higher notes. Also all 12 members of the section shake at the same rate. Herbert
    I will ask them their names. Maybe they all are called Bond, but then old aged Bonds, shaken not stirred. One day I will compose a piece for elder people..... haha.

    Raymond

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