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Topic: What is killing my levels?

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  1. #1

    What is killing my levels?

    My rig - Win7, latest GPO, Sonar 8.5

    My piece has a couple of tracks using Cakewalk's Rapture synth, plus tracks using GPO - Section Violin 1, Section Violin 2, and Viola. Another instance of Aria has the three solo cellos, and two solo double basses.

    When I make any change in the violin or viola parts, my level in the cello and bass parts drops by more than half. All of the sliders in both Sonar and Aria are up. Inspecting the velocity and volume controllers show them at the appropriate level.

    To get my levels back, I have to go into Aria and reload the patches. Then everything plays correctly until I make a change in the upper strings. Obviously something I'm not thinking of.
    John

  2. #2

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Ahhhk - answering my own question. The mod wheel. I need to put in a command. Thanks for reading.
    John

  3. #3

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Hi, John - Glad you made progress so soon after you put up your post.

    Reading between the lines of what you've written here, I can see you're rather new to GPO and might appreciate a tip or two. I use Sonar like you, so the point of reference is the same.

    You discovered that your volume was dropping apparently because there was a random mod wheel (cc1) event in a track - OK, this is good you discovered that.

    BUT, my friend, this won't do, "...I need to put in a command..."

    You'll never get 1/10th of the realism out of GPO if you don't use cc1 as an on-going, dynamic force in your tracks. You can never just leave it at inserting a single event and leaving it at that.

    You need to record your cc1 data, if you have a keyboard, feeling out the ebb and flow of the volume, emulating the way a musician plays his instrument. Take a Clarinet as an example - listen to a solo Clarinet line, the notes never just hang there at a constant volume. The notes are being given an almost continuous change of volume, certainly lots of swells, fading at the end - etc. Every single GPO instrument in your projects should be given this treatment. You'll be amazed at how much more life-like your music will suddenly be. If you don't have a keyboard, then draw the data in the Piano Roll View. Constant fluctuations, some subtle, some dramatic.

    The other thing that indicates you have things set up incorrectly is that your changes in one string section are effecting the others. This isn't what you want at all. It indicates that you have different instruments sharing the same MIDI channel--Yikes--no, no, they must each have their own MIDI channel and their own audio channel. Program your Aria player so you use all 16 audio outs, and all 16 MIDI channels.

    I guarantee you--What I've described is the ONLY way to fly with GPO.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    I guarantee you--What I've described is the ONLY way to fly with GPO. Randy
    Something like American Airways, but now GPO Air with Randy as flight attendant?

    Raymond

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Senior Member
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    Re: What is killing my levels?

    “Something like American Airways, but now GPO Air with Randy as flight attendant?”

    Raymond this is so hilarious.

    Randy, I know you have a good sense of humor.


    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

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    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
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  7. #7

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Quote Originally Posted by sonata5920 View Post
    “Something like American Airways, but now GPO Air with Randy as flight attendant?”

    Raymond this is so hilarious.

    Randy, I know you have a good sense of humor.


    Herbert
    Raymond's old enough to remember the old American Airlines ads like I do. Jim Backus, the voice of Mr. Magoo would intone, "The OOooonly way to fly"--and I think the character was a Parrot, or some bird hitching a ride on a plane? Yeppers.

    randy

  8. #8

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Just getting back to this. No, I'm not new to GPO - it's just been awhile, and Sonar 8 handles GPO differently than my old Overture notation program.

    I do not have multiple tracks on the same midi channel - in fact, I have the section strings a completely different instance of Aria from the lower solo strings. But yet, until I put a cc1 command in each of the lower solo strings, any change in the section strings caused the lower solo strings to go to cc1=0. I don't understand why, but by putting a controller command in each channel of the solo strings, the volume stays up, so I'm not worrying about it. At this point, I'm just getting the notes in - not yet worrying about expression or playing musically.
    Thanks for the tips.
    John

  9. #9

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Quote Originally Posted by JESimmons View Post
    Just getting back to this. No, I'm not new to GPO - it's just been awhile, and Sonar 8 handles GPO differently than my old Overture notation program.

    I do not have multiple tracks on the same midi channel - in fact, I have the section strings a completely different instance of Aria from the lower solo strings. But yet, until I put a cc1 command in each of the lower solo strings, any change in the section strings caused the lower solo strings to go to cc1=0. I don't understand why, but by putting a controller command in each channel of the solo strings, the volume stays up, so I'm not worrying about it. At this point, I'm just getting the notes in - not yet worrying about expression or playing musically.
    Thanks for the tips.
    John
    Options->Project>MIDI Out>Uncheck Zero controllers when play stops

  10. #10

    Re: What is killing my levels?

    Yes, did that before asking the question, but that's a very good thing for folks to look for. It's caught me in the past.

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