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Topic: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

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  1. #1

    Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    I am a first time user of Gigastudio. I purchased the Garritan Orchestral Strings and the Siedlaczek Advanced Orchestra to use with it. No problem with the Garritan Strings, but I have a problem with the AO. I enter my compositions into Finale, my notation sequencer, and play them back through Gigastudio (I am not a keyboard performer, although I use the keyboard to type in notes sometimes). With many AO instruments whose normal range extends into the bass clef (bassoon, cello, trombone, etc.), when I write a middle C, it plays a C an octave below middle C (some may be two octaves below). Likewise, when I play a middle C on the Gigastudio virtual keyboard, it sounds a note an octave lower. Apparently, the samples are shifted up an octave to allow them to use the lower keys on the keyboard as control keys to evoke different effects. This may be ok for a keyboard user, but for me the playback is wrong. If I write the part an octave higher then I get the correct pitches, but the score is then incorrect and I can not give it to a live musician.

    Is there a way to fix this problem? Every other synthesizer/sampler I have ever used placed the instruments in the correct range for that instrument (in fact I rely on this to tell me what the effective range of the instrument is). The GOS package, for instance, puts each instrument into its correct range. I tried going into the instrument editor and shifting the range down one octave, but that only resulted in mud and I had to reload the instrument from the distribution CD.

    I can\'t imagine that there is not a way to deal with this, hopefully not too technically difficult since I don\'t know much yet about editing and modifying sound samples. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.


  2. #2
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    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    I simply transpose the whole entry in the MIDI channel playing these transposed instruments in my sequencer.

  3. #3

    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    I don\'t know if this is the quickest or most efficient way but it works for me. Make sure you have the instrument you want to edit selected in the top left window of GigaEditor. In the top right window select all the regions so that they turn yellow. Click and drag them down an octave. Then while the regions are still selected, right click and choose transpose. Type in 12 in the \"half steps\" box and click ok.

    This is from memory as I\'m not sitting in my studio, but it should work.

  4. #4

    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    hi delneroni,
    It looks like to me transposing the line in finale is your best choice. I had the roland orchestral cards and they made the same mistake on half of the instruments.
    How does GOS respond to Finale? I am an expert finale user and I am just about to buy samples and build a gigastudio. I am reconsidering buying AO now. I am not going to spend that lind of money on samples and have them not get their transpositions right. That\'s absurd.

  5. #5

    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    Aaron:

    Thanks for your reply. I tried your method and it worked. However, in most cases I had to move the instrument range over the keys that had been reserved for control functions, with the result that the control functions no longer work. That means that I can not access most of the effects on the different instruments, like pizzicato, trill, etc., on strings, and so on. Which renders the package useless as far as I am concerned.

    I think I am going to ask for a refund. This package is definitely not one that I can use.

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron Symonds:
    I don\'t know if this is the quickest or most efficient way but it works for me. Make sure you have the instrument you want to edit selected in the top left window of GigaEditor. In the top right window select all the regions so that they turn yellow. Click and drag them down an octave. Then while the regions are still selected, right click and choose transpose. Type in 12 in the \"half steps\" box and click ok.

    This is from memory as I\'m not sitting in my studio, but it should work.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  6. #6
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    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra


  7. #7
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    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    You can also change the dimension controller from Key control to some other cc.

    BTW, It’s not possible to return sample libraries for a refund.

  8. #8

    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    Thanks to all who have replied to my query. All very helpful. To summarize, there are apparently two approaches to dealing with this problem. One is that you can transpose the instrument range within Finale by using the staff tool. There are two disadvantages to this: 1. you have to do it every time you set up a new score and 2. if you transpose into the range of the control notes (unavoidable), every time you write one of those notes it changes the instrument \"patch\" that plays on playback.

    The second approach is to use the gigastudio instrument editor to permanently change the instrument setup. You can move the control keys to an area where they are less likely to be a problem (to the top of the keyboard maybe? I\'m not sure about this yet) and then you can permanently transpose the instrument range to the octave that is correct for that instrument so that you can write the notes in Finale as you would for a live player. This is a lot of work up front but once it is done, you can forget about it. This is the route I will take, because there are a lot of good sounds in this package and I would like to be able to use it.

    The only thing I have not figured out yet is how to invoke the control keys (keydimension keys) from Finale. How do you create a \'note on\' event without actually writing a note in the score? I know how to do patch changes, but that is not how you do it with this package. Again, someone who knows Finale better than I do may be able to help here.

    To anybody else considering this package, it is a good buy for the money, but be prepared to do some work up front to get it working correctly.


  9. #9
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    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    That\'s one way.

    Here\'s the other: if you transpose the notes in the sequencer you will move them further away from the keyswitch notes (i.e. in the opposite direction to the transposition required in the instrument editor). I tend to transpose the whole channel when finished, -then transpose back any keyswitch notes.

    I find it convenient to use notes in the sequencer to switch articulations: they are easily seen and moved/altered as necessary without having to switch screens. I keep up a seperate copy of the score to print, if necessary.

    Martin Beckers

  10. #10
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    Re: Beginner has problem with Advanced Orchestra

    Using keys as the dimension control is only useful for live keyboard playing. If you enter notes in step time in Finale, it has no value; only all the problems that you\'ve described.

    I use Finale also, here\'s what I do:

    Edit the instruments so that they fall in their correct keyboard range.

    Change the dimension controller to cc16.

    In Finale, create a series of non-printing score articulations for each of the cc16 values you need to send. I use the letter \'A\' (for articulation) followed by 0, 8, 16, etc. I keep a chart of all the controller values vs articulations. Thus, I only need one set of articulations expression. A16 may mean something different in different instruments (AO, Dan Dean, X-Sample), but I keep track of that separately in the chart.

    Editing the instruments does not take long, only a couple of minutes each.

    Works for me...

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