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Topic: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Sep 1999
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    Dallas, Texas
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    Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    Hi everybody,

    I have been working with the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial on a pop project this week, and I wanted to congratulate Kip on a job well done.

    I see Pete Leoni beat me to the punch on describing the instrument, but I\'ll certainly concur on all of his points about it. This is probably the brightest Giga-piano I\'ve heard, all in all, with nice woody body backing it up.

    People who have been looking for a \"sparkling\" piano which will ride atop a full mix will find it here. I would describe this as the classic glassy studio-piano sound, and recommend it for anyone who has had issues getting Giga-pianos to sit properly in mixes. It is closely and cleanly mic\'ed, and doesn\'t apologize for it!

    One thing I have found is that collapsing the stereo image just a bit will make this piano recede into a specific location. I found that to be a handy variation on the point-blank perspective. If you want it glossy, in your face, and all over the soundstage, leave it as is and crank it up. It works very well either way, just depends on the material you\'re doing. Sometimes narrower is better.

    It has the highly desirable characteristic of transparency in the mix, almost iced, but not tinny. This is a sound that is sought after, and not that easy to get. For a lot of material, this may be a better choice than having a real piano in your studio. Matter of fact, unless you have a Bos and a set of nice mics, you won\'t get this particular sound.

    I think this is a great addition to the overall selection of Giga pianos. I will always try this one first on pop tunes, that\'s for sure. I think it will also be a good choice for \"heroic\" piano over orchestra (pan it very close to mono) and for certain soundtrack work. I don\'t think it is as strong a choice for piano/pianissimo, solo chamber music, klangfarbenmelodie, new age, etc., as some other choices on the market. But no one piano library can possibly be \"the\" piano. It just doesn\'t work that way.

    One thing for sure, until now I have always had to work very hard to get Giga pianos to sound right in a pop mix, and this piano sits in exactly the right place. That\'s a big accomplishment.

  2. #2

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    I like Kip\'s demos, and I love the tone of Boesies (and probably everyone knows that I think the EW Bos is great with a bit of editing).

    I wanted to hear how Kip\'s demo compared to my own piano, so I grabbed the Chopin Fantasie midi from classicalarchives.com and used it to drive my own favorite piano patch on the EW bos. There was no question that the EW Bos yeilded a nicer sounding rendering (try it yourself if you have my articulation file). A lot of this was due to sonic flaws in the demo, both in the transients (clipped in the mix probably, also probably some mp3 damage), and also some of the mid highs sounded hyped in a bad way, I\'m not clear what the source of this is, could be mp3 damage, or it sounds like a mic that got hit too hard.

    Kip, you would do well by me by laying down a prettier demo of this Chopin piece without any flaws. I know the LAME (sic, that\'s the name...) encoder doesn\'t introduce data compression damage to piano files at these high rates, it is surely worth an audition since it\'s free.

    I want to hear this piano demo Chopin better than my own. I suspect with the instrument, signal chain, and philosophy behind it, it ought to, and I also suspect Kip has the skill to pull it off. So show me, give me a demo that shows me how good your ears are, Kip!

    Also, I know I listen for something different in a reverb than most people, but I thought the dry demo was better than the Altiverb one. I have a few Lexicon tunings I like better than that Altiverb sound here. I\'m glad the demos are mostly dry, it shows them off very well. I\'ve got a few great reverbs here, nice to hear how the sample could be presented in my environment (and I don\'t like the sound of reverbed reverb...)

    Thanks all, best regards,
    -sam

  3. #3

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
    Hi everybody,

    I have been working with the Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial on a pop project this week, and I wanted to congratulate Kip on a job well done.

    I see Pete Leoni beat me to the punch on describing the instrument, but I\'ll certainly concur on all of his points about it. This is probably the brightest Giga-piano I\'ve heard, all in all, with nice woody body backing it up.

    People who have been looking for a \"sparkling\" piano which will ride atop a full mix will find it here. I would describe this as the classic glassy studio-piano sound, and recommend it for anyone who has had issues getting Giga-pianos to sit properly in mixes. It is closely and cleanly mic\'ed, and doesn\'t apologize for it!

    One thing I have found is that collapsing the stereo image just a bit will make this piano recede into a specific location. I found that to be a handy variation on the point-blank perspective. If you want it glossy, in your face, and all over the soundstage, leave it as is and crank it up. It works very well either way, just depends on the material you\'re doing. Sometimes narrower is better.

    It has the highly desirable characteristic of transparency in the mix, almost iced, but not tinny. This is a sound that is sought after, and not that easy to get. For a lot of material, this may be a better choice than having a real piano in your studio. Matter of fact, unless you have a Bos and a set of nice mics, you won\'t get this particular sound.

    I think this is a great addition to the overall selection of Giga pianos. I will always try this one first on pop tunes, that\'s for sure. I think it will also be a good choice for \"heroic\" piano over orchestra (pan it very close to mono) and for certain soundtrack work. I don\'t think it is as strong a choice for piano/pianissimo, solo chamber music, klangfarbenmelodie, new age, etc., as some other choices on the market. But no one piano library can possibly be \"the\" piano. It just doesn\'t work that way.

    One thing for sure, until now I have always had to work very hard to get Giga pianos to sound right in a pop mix, and this piano sits in exactly the right place. That\'s a big accomplishment.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello Bruce,

    I am very much honored by your extremely wonderful compliments!

    Many thanks!

    Kip
    Bardstown Audio
    www.bardstownaudio.com


  4. #4

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    I have to agree with Sam. I\'ve been listening to the mp3 demos over and over, and I hear distortion in the louder treble components. I know KIP says (in a previous post) that the distortion\'s not there. But my ears tell me something different. LAME is the way to go. No question.

    J.G.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
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    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by john g:
    I have to agree with Sam. I\'ve been listening to the mp3 demos over and over, and I hear distortion in the louder treble components. I know KIP says (in a previous post) that the distortion\'s not there. But my ears tell me something different. LAME is the way to go. No question.

    J.G.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hi John,

    There\'s no distortion in the instrument, I can vouch for that. It\'s very bright, though, and that\'s exactly the frequency range that bones MP3 encoders.

    Best regards,
    Bruce


  6. #6

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    I just returned late last night from NAMM, where Kip\'s Bosendorfer was being praised heavily by NUMEROUS top people from the top companies. This distortion rumor was brought up at the show. I discussed this with a few top folks there, who all agreed it is absolute fiction. I have a copy of this piano. There is no distortion. People in the know who are in positions to promote this piano also agree that there is no distorion. They love it. I and others do not understand what the issue is about this piano. It sounds great. The best one I\'ve heard. Period.

  7. #7

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dandean:
    I just returned late last night from NAMM, where Kip\'s Bosendorfer was being praised heavily by NUMEROUS top people from the top companies. This distortion rumor was brought up at the show. I discussed this with a few top folks there, who all agreed it is absolute fiction. I have a copy of this piano. There is no distortion. People in the know who are in positions to promote this piano also agree that there is no distorion. They love it. I and others do not understand what the issue is about this piano. It sounds great. The best one I\'ve heard. Period. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Hello Dan,

    Thank you very much for \"nipping this thing in the bud\" and setting the record straight with the honest truthful facts.

    Kip
    Bardstown Audio
    www.bardstownaudio.com


  8. #8

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce A. Richardson:
    Hi John,

    There\'s no distortion in the instrument, I can vouch for that. It\'s very bright, though, and that\'s exactly the frequency range that bones MP3 encoders.

    Best regards,
    Bruce

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hello Bruce,

    Thank you very much for \"nipping this thing in the bud\" and setting the record straight with the honest truthful facts.

    Kip
    Bardstown Audio
    www.bardstownaudio.com


  9. #9

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    I don\'t know about the distortion issue, but the MPGs sound nothing like a Bors.

    These pianos have a much more subtle, unmetalic timbre than the MPGs capture. The problem with the sample seems to be close miking. This issue has come up again and again on this board. If you put mics close to the strings, you record only the vibration of the strings.

  10. #10

    Re: Bardstown Bosendorfer Imperial

    > People in the know who are in positions to promote this piano

    Yeah yeah, people \"in the know\" who have been given this piano sample are doing a bang up promotional job here. Those of us not in the know who have to buy our samples have noted that the tone in the demo is not necessarily consistently better than what we\'ve got. I don\'t trust the opinions of others to tell me if I\'m going to like the tone of a sample set, so until people start giving me samples, I\'ve got to rely on my ears.

    Kip, it\'s great to commend the fine taste of people you\'ve given this to, but paying customers will probably respond more favorably to better sonics in the demos that sell your products. Since I haven\'t seen anyone contend that there are engineering problems with this product it\'s goofy to assume a defensive posture. Potential customers just want to be able to judge the tone, this should seem very reasonable. If you\'re going to make available high bit rate mp3\'s, there\'s no excuse for flawed sonics.

    And as for trusting the opinions of the experts \"in the know\", I can\'t forget that Bruce wrote a review rating the gigapiano (the worst one in my library) higher than the east-west pianos. To me gigapiano has conspicuous engineering problems that make it quite annoying, whereas the EW pianos had solid material that could clearly be improved by a good user (ie \"not in the know\") Some of his reviews are spot on and I\'m sure he has good reasons for his opinions, but he doesn\'t hear what I hear. So his opinion is just like anyone elses here, except he gets his samples for free and his income is derived from selling ads to people selling music products...

    rant off!
    -sam

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