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Topic: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

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  1. #1

    Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    I\'ve been conducting some new experiments lately. Legato-phrasing using short snippets of 0.5 sec wav files gathered from various sources of music. I did this with solo horn in an earlier project and the result was pretty interesting. Now I\'ve conducted the same experiment using Kirk Hunter and legato phrasing samples (to connect the notes). I would very much like a library with these capabilities in the future, because, as you can hear, it adds an incredible amount of realism to the passages.

    (The kirk hunter library doesn\'t have any piano samples and thus the first note sounds a bit weird.) This is just a short sketch.
    http://home.online.no/~finjaco/Jazz2k - Cellilegato.mp3

    Thomas

    [This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 01-22-2002).]

  2. #2
    PatS
    Guest

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    I\'ve been conducting some new experiments lately. Legato-phrasing using short snippets of 0.5 sec wav files gathered from various sources of music. I did this with solo horn in an earlier project and the result was pretty interesting.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    \"various sources of music\"? Do you mean pre-recorded music other than your own? Is that legal?

    Maybe you\'ve answered this question already (I don\'t have time to search through the forum), but did you apply this technique to some of your epic-sounding demos?

    Pat

    [This message has been edited by PatS (edited 01-22-2002).]

  3. #3

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Thomas There are slides in GOS if thats what you\'re talkinga about. Or are you actually talking about something else.....I figure it is something else since KH has slides as well right?

    Anyhow. I\'m planning on doing some tweaks to the slides in GOS that will make them more \"playable\" and easier to use with more variations. Slides to different notes and possibly some sustains at the end and beginning of each slide for a smoother transition. Also different speeds.

    With Legato mode and tiny bits of slides here and there it should sound pretty fantastic.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-22-2002).]

  4. #4

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Hey King, where are the slides in GOS? I looked for about 5 seconds last night and couldn\'t find them. I assumed they would be on the alternate patches, but I guess I assumed wrong.

  5. #5

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Thomas_J, this sounds cool as always. So where are the samples from. Can you recommend any specific works for ripping off great string-ensembles notes to make your own library?

  6. #6

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Thomas,
    Wonderfully smooth. What do you mean by experimenting with snippets to get this type of legato phrasing?
    Gabriel

  7. #7

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Hey Jamieh they are in with the LongBows

    There are articulations for slide with mod wheel down Xfade into Long Bow sustain.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  8. #8

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    No, I\'m not talking about slides. Those are only half useful, half of the time. I\'m talking about recorded legato intervals that connect the notes seamlessly.

    The thing is that this is just an experiment. I figured I\'d try it with celli today because I had a great amount of ripped legato samples lying about on my hd (that I ripped ages ago from a borrowed concert piece ((by one of my teachers) in the school\'s library). I cannot remember any specific works that feature celli in unison but there are many, I can assure you of that. But why limit yourself to only celli?

    Pat: I didn\'t take more than 250ms of sound from anything so I would guess that it is legal. It\'s not like I\'m ripping motifs or anything. Picture a symphony recording. Somewhere in that symphony there\'s a slow pizzicato passage. Lets say you ripped out ONE single pizzicato pluck and saved it. Now, if you used this pluck in your own music I don\'t think people would be screaming \"OH MY GOD that\'s the pizzicato pluck at 45:34 in violas - in Schönberg\'s sym. no.2! - conducted by \"whomever\", played by \"whatever orchestra\"\"

    I didn\'t utilize this technique on anything else except on \"this is goodbye\" for the horn part. The way it is now, it takes waaaay too much time. It\'s simply not worth it

    That\'s why I\'m hoping perhaps Garritan or someone else will pick up this technique and implement it in an update or something. It\'d be very useful!

    The technique in detail:

    Find a spot in a piece where an instrument (or instrument group) plays a solo part. Extract the few milliseconds of sound where the player changes bowing or plays up or down an interval. Save it. Do this for all the variants you can find. Transposing will work up or down about a minor 3rd without starting to sound completely odd. Needless to say you need a great deal of this type of samples to make it efficient in your music. That\'s why it\'d be interesting to have some sample developer look at the technique.

    Thomas

    [This message has been edited by Thomas_J (edited 01-22-2002).]

  9. #9

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    [B]I would very much like a library with these capabilities in the future, because, as you can hear, it adds an incredible amount of realism to the passages.
    B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes this is definitely a good thing..
    The problem is that for libraries to have legato phrased samples like you used essentially means doubling the size of the library, since with Gigastudio the same samples can\'t be used for both legato and normal attack samples. We really need to be able to define start points in the editor that can bypass the attack portion of the samples. Right now the limit to how far in you can start is maybe 50 milliseconds or something similar - not very useful! Sure there\'s ways around it, and we worked around it in GOS for example, but there\'s really no substitute for it being a feature in Gigastudio. I\'ve heard it\'s difficult for Nemesys to do, but let\'s hope. It may help if you add your request to their list too


  10. #10

    Re: Kirk Hunter + Legato phrasing demo

    Ah I misunderstood you (I thought you were working with the Kirk Hunter samples on the mp3). That\'s an interesting idea. Technically there\'s no reason why it can\'t be done, though it takes some special midi handling that Tascam probably wouldn\'t choose to implement. But something like Maestro could do it. I\'d need sample material before I\'d have a reason to create that program/features, but it\'s a cool idea.

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