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Topic: Another String thing "trick" for really softer lines

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  1. #1

    Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    I\'ve taken a break for few hours due to major stress my G/F inflicted on my by managing to infect my new laptop with Chernobyl sometime earlier this month. I realised it was infected a few days ago after it dropped its payload. sigh... tying to save it... but may have to just reformat and start over.

    Not to mention the deadline I was supposed to meet tomorow but am not going to. I\"m just way out of my mind and wanted to fool around a bit...because it makes me happy

    anyhow....

    Some of us with strings that we find \"harsh\" might benefit from using low pass filters on top of EQ. I\'m finding a new \"love\" for the Warm version of the Sordinos in GOS. but I believe that what I like about these would translate well into say US as wel, and possibly AO, of even KH. Even tho US and AO dont have Sordino (wait.. Ao does...but US no..right.. yah..thats it )
    First off. EQ

    I\'m doing a roll off at about 40hz with a tight Q, pumping about 4db at around 200 with a q of about 4, pulling about 9db at about 3250, with a q of around 9, and pulling around 4.1-4.2k with a Q of around 9.5 to 10. In GOS, there is a pretty nasty ring at around 4.2 that doesn\'t sound so bad at forte with all the strings playing but not so great solo with more open and expressive playing. Remember I\'m also using some reverb...and this EQ is what I\'m using for Sordino Violins, but should work for the other violins as well. (I also use less or no reverb for short bows)

    Now. Low pass filters. GOS comes with one wtih settings for the min cutoff at aound 45...a little too much more than I\'d really use, but I believe it was meant for people who wanted to go \"more\", any how. I\'m finding that playing with this on top of EXP control is really helping. Especially to even out the high notes. Again like I said. When you\'re playng big passages with alot of other instruments, taking out the filter helps bring out the strings, but without other instrumetns I liek the filter in at about 70-75 percent (inbetween and around MIDI value 85-100)

    with Sordinos I get a really nice soft and expressive control.

    Dont do too much \"swelling\" with the filter control. jst bump it around here and there. Swelling really starts to give that \"wah\" effect while its ok in conjunction with EXP control in GOS, without something like that it probably wont sound too good. Maybe in the future a Maestro tools option to convert velocity response into GPC-7 control... hmmm sounds good to me Jeff?


    Anyhow. any takers on checking out how this sounds?

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  2. #2
    PatS
    Guest

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>I\'m doing a roll off at about 40hz with a tight Q, pumping about 4db at around 200 with a q of about 4, pulling about 9db at about 3250, with a q of around 9, and pulling around 4.1-4.2k with a Q of around 9.5 to 10.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Ummm . . . is this English? Maybe if I squint a bit.

    Seriously, nice tip, King.

    Pat

  3. #3

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    damn engineer talk again

    I\'ve been toying with layering AO solo strings on top of it...I wish I had DD solo strings or Gary\'s were out. I have a feeling that layering DD solo strings on top with atenuation control and some EQ in the Mids would sound fantastic. AO sounds good layered, but needs a High pass...too much noise and rattle comes in since I have teh 200 hz boost. Still it sounds quite good.

    I also layered in a really filtered version of the new GR Dets and it sounds quite wonderful. but I think its just \"width\" that I\'m adding so the normal sustain legatos should work fine as well. Not to mention the second violin section...and full strings wheee!

    but dammit I\'m all GOS again. I meant this to be a post for all strings.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  4. #4

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    Now I feel like the idiot!

    Are you saying to eq AND use the WARM filter with GOS Sordino? Or is it a case of either/or?

    Also, what eq do you use?

    Thanks in advance King.

  5. #5

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    TJ Both EQ and Warm filter

    I\'m using the basic garbage EQ in my 1680. Its actually very \"digital\" so boosting anywher in the high mids and mids sounds like caca...but thats ok..I\'m only cutting


    I\'ve also foudn a really cool trick with the Warm filter for Dimminuendo and Crecendos. Brin it UP when you fade CC11 out (after using MOD wheel EXP) to nothing. This helps add that \"air\" that is missing in a regular volume curve that happens with CC11

    I\'m having a ball playing the Cast Away line, because Francis was talking about it, also some stuff from Fantasia. It really sounds fantastic.

    Jeff is going to hate me with all the mapping I want to create with Maestro Tools I think I need to spend some time with MIDI OX...or better yet Logic

    I love this stuff...but man I need to get back to my scripting work...

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-30-2002).]

  6. #6

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    If you have more EQ. Pulling back a tight Q in the 400 range helps out with some harmonic ringing in reverbs, but you ave to be really gentle with it. If you dont,..then dont pump the 200 like I said aarlier. Make the much smaller so you dont pump the 400 range too much


    EDIT

    Something else just occursed to me. Try layering another string instrument and pan it \"near\" and EXP instrumetn to widen the stero spread of it (mix it in lower and use the Warm filter to \"hide\" it) . Make sure its velocity sensetive. Now you can make for a pretty cool realistic effect by making string players on each side of the section vary how loud they get. gives more sense of realism. Even better is to layer in a solo violin that has a completely differnt velocity curve. All playing in real time you can get a pretty awesome effect.
    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 01-31-2002).]

  7. #7

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    I\'m going to bump tihs to the top constantly because I\'d like people to try this kind of stuff and comment and maybe try some ticks of their own.

    So if you get annoyed with my double Posts Papa Chalk, I\'m sorry... I just want to keep some constructive posts/discusions liek this in peoples faces, ust like the drama threads stay up there

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  8. #8

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    Nasty ring at 4.2 Kh??? Sounds like a \"nasty ring\" in speakers... typical for non-linear phase designs.

  9. #9

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    I really want to try this stuff out but I\'m a little confused. Forgive the ignorance but a) my engineering skills are a little lacking b) if I don\'t ask I\'ll never know and c) hopefully others will benefit as well.

    That said...

    I have Waves Q-10 paragraphic EQ. Which type do I use? Bell, Low shelf, high shelf etc? Also, when you say \"a tight Q\" could you give me a setting to start with? I have the following to play with: Gain, Freq, Q. How much are you \"pulling around 4.1-4.2k with a Q of around 9.5 to 10.\"?

    I\'d appreciate any help and advice you have and again apologies for the dumb questions. I really should know this stuff by now



    [This message has been edited by Tokyo Joe (edited 01-31-2002).]

  10. #10

    Re: Another String thing \"trick\" for really softer lines

    Hi Kingidiot,

    Do you know how much phases distortion you are introducing with all these EQs? Do you know what these phase distortions are doing to youre impulse and step response? You are doing everything to make it sound shrill.
    I would suggest to start over with EQs of absolutely no more than 3 db with a maximum Q of 1. Anything beyond that is evil if ou want to listen to natural sound. You also might want to measure the frequency, step and impulse response of your speakers from your listening position. Do not take the manufacturer\'s for granted....

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