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Topic: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

  1. #1

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    Thank`s for all the input to this forum - it`s appreciated. For people like myselves who are new to Gigastudio it`s great to see that forums like this exist.

    I like the ide of a specialised guitar sample library. I mean, doing one job and doing it to the highest standard possible.
    Like say one library dedicated to distorted guitar tones, another to effects, a third to clean and so fourth....
    Most of all i will love to see a guitar library that really could fool people in to thinking they are hearing the right stuff. I know, i am asking a lot - but this should be possible ? (as possible it can be with samples that is)

    ------ regards

  2. #2

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    \"but on what I\'ve seen from specs and heard at other peoples houses), is that they dont take advantage of the giga format much to capture expression. Character yes...but thats never enough\"

    I personally agree that it\'s hard to capture expression from instruments, but my library Giga Clean Electric Guitars uses many dimension keys and multiple velocities to achieve imho very expressive performances.

    3 velocities per note, chromatically sampled with 3 zones that are keyswichtable, from low neck to mid neck to high neck 12th fret and up....
    Also,in addition to the 3 zones described, for every one there is a dimension key that plays slides on the high velocity and one dimension that plays hammer-ons on the high velocity (108) and up. also there\'s a dimension key with mutes in 3 velocities.
    This takes every dimension available in Giga... and each of the instruments weigh in at approx 500 megs each. For me that is using Giga\'s possibilities to the max...

    This makes for very expressive performances imho, and shows what is possible with the giga platform, although i know my library is less known i think it shows exactly what it is possible to acheive with Giga regarding Sampled guitars, it\'s not perfect nothing is, but i beleive it\'s a step in the right direction.

    Vintaudio Productions www.vintaudio.com

  3. #3

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers


    I think your libraries sound great and seem to take to Processing really well. Atleast from what I heard in the demos

    Still they seem to sound best with Arpegiated performances and solo lines and not Rhythmic Strumming. This is part of the expression I was reffering to.

    I didn\'t mean to attack anyone whos made a guitar library, but more to stir up ideas to take guitar samplign to new levels or different attitudes. I also dont mean to say that the libraries available aren\'t good. In fact many of them are better than whats been available.

    one thing I do like about this forum is the developers connection, but I also dislike it for issues like this. Most people seem to defend libraries they\'ve made or feel close too. Which is why I purposely made a point not to attack any particular library, but certain \"concepts\" in general.

    Lets try and disect things that are missing from guitar libraries and push for different techniqeus that may help fill in the gaps.

    I think the idea of having an all around library like yours then variations of the library that \"fill in the gaps\" performance wise may very well be the best answer to guitar libraries that are recorded direct.

    One thing I think people sorely miss is a guitar library that fits a specific style. For example Country with hard plucked arpegios/single notes. Blues with disected pieces of commonly used blues licks. Heavy Metal with calibrated Chord Chugs. Etc.

    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 03-02-2002).]

  4. #4

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers


    ...This is a step in the right direction, no doubt about that. We may not be all the way there yet, but hey.......

    I am sitting here listening to the demo`s right now. They all sound very good to me.
    All the arpeggiated parts sounds very nice.

    I am a bit let down tho, because there is no real strumming, chugs, etc. or something that would make me think that..*wow is this really a sample played on a keyboard*

    Not to say that your library isn`t any good, by no means, it is. I shure hope, but it might seem that for now, there is not a really good guitar library in the strumming etc. department. Maybe someone (you) will prove me wrong soon.....

    ........ regards

    [This message has been edited by MUSICMAN (edited 03-02-2002).]

  5. #5

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    King, i did not perceive your post as an attack on current libraries at all
    i was just pointing out what has been done so far, by all means i was not intending to disagree with you on the contrary i totally agree with you on the core of your premise.

    You both are right about strumming, i have thought about doing it but i played around with other libraries and to me all their strumming programs sounded god awful to me totally unrealistic.
    However, Bardstown Audio Kip\'s vintage guitar library uses midi programs that strum like BIAB and others, i think Cakewalk makes a strum module also, they sound much more decent than library strum patches.
    When i set out to do my library, it was to fill the gap since i can play strumming and rythm like any other pro Guitarist (i am mainly a keyboard player and singer) but leads and picking stuff, forget that... that\'s why i did the library, strumming is far to subtle and different styles etc.. a massive undertaking which i aint even certain the results could be that usable, having said that there must be a good way of doing it, it just aint gonna be me lol...

    By all means King good job on starting the thread, it is worthwile and not agressive at all, i didn\'t mean to sound negative about your post on the contrary i agree on everything you said i was just merely pointing out what i had done with mine since it hadn\'t been mentionned in the thread that\'s all

    Kind Regards

  6. #6

    Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    This thread is somethigng I\'m starting because of another thread that speaks about not ahving enough talk abou thtese types of libraries.

    I personally shouldn\'t be starting this one because I dont OWN many guitar libraries. In fact I only own Bardstown Audio\'s vintage guitars. Tho I am trying to work on a Guitar library of my own. Dependant on how much I actually do it will be a free library or a purchasable one. With a possibility of it being partly both.

    Anyhow, what I\'ve seen of guitar libraries (this is not based on Bardstown guitars but on what I\'ve seen from specs and heard at other peoples houses), is that they dont take advantage of the giga format much to capture expression. Character yes...but thats never enough

    having 16 velocity layers of on note is never going to be enough, thats jsut plain and simple. Developers like Scarbee can capture a bass and give us options for adding expression. Slides, different string samples, different attacks etc. This is a major key in getting realistic performances. Tho, I\'m sure even he, would agree that getting an expressive guitar giga instrument is going to be quite difficult. Especially for all the people clamouring for a \"ready to go distorted/effected/amped\" instrument.

    QL56 strat seems to have pushed the envelope a little by giving the end user various scrapes and picking variations as well as multiple dynamics and slides. I dont have the library but it sounds like it could be extremely useful.

    These look like steps in the right direction, but I still think there is alot missing. Release triggers are being used mostly as ambience, what about for performance features?

    A long time ago I found that taking a chug withup and down strokes could be \"split\" at each stroke and I could speed it up if I moved the even number strokes closer to the odd number strokes. This could be an instrument idea. Play an down-up chug (e5)*AS ONE PERFORMANCE* at say 80bpm 8th notes. split each chug and make a sample, now assign the 1st chug to note on and the up chug to release. Boom an easy to play calibrated chug that can be sped up. IMO this is a better option than having one instrument that is trying to do it all. Of course on can assign a mod wheel variation for amount of palm muting and do multiple variations of the chug with remapping a second variation up 3 octaves on the keyboard.

    Anyhow. I think someone needs to start creating genre specific \"performing\" libraries.

    for an instrument that will do all, you need to record it directly and post process of course. I have many ideas for this type of instrument but requires some sample processing that i\'m still developing. Still with these types of gig instruements I still think its prudent that developers make variations (articulations not samples) that take better to different styles/performances. We all know that we can make different variations of a single instrument, like say one that works best for solos with slides mapped 3 octaves up or varied on the mod wheel, and one that works with chugs with pick scrape/noise variation/attenuation assigned to the mod wheel.

    This is the type of stuff I nthink needs to be done as well as some forward thinking with sample/soud design to make guitar libraries and ANY library for that matter, better than an over glorified Akai sample

    This isn\'t meant to be a diatribe or a soap box rant, but to start discussion on new ideas, and to maybe inspire people with libraries to create their own patches that might give them better results.

    Really...I am an Idiot

  7. #7

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    Hi Franky,

    Yeah I think we need more dimensions to really kick up things with a guitar. But until then we must use more programs (and prg.changes) For a while life will be a little tougher with lots of programming, but \"live playability\" is no doubt the next thing comming up. But we need the \"hardware\" first. I like the idea of \"clean guitar\" this is the same approach I take with my libraries. But I think we better ask Alien Connection (Revalver) to finish their NFX plugin as we need this for guitar libraries. We are let down on the FX department here!

    About distortion on samples: playing 1 note will do, but 2 or more sucks! Un natural and not usefull.



    Visit www.scarbee.com and check out the demoes from The Scarbee Bass Libraries

  8. #8

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    Yes you\'re right Thomas, Alien Connections has let us down big time so far... i was hoping they would release the damn thing so people could use it with my library and other libraries, i dont see what the problem is, the Revalver program is already coded all they need is to transfer that into NFX code, that shouldnt be too difficult seeing it has already been coded...

    For now, people have to use outboard like \"the Pod\" to get distortion, go in Halion and use the Vst effects like i do...
    or do a kind of bus between audio card to put GIGA has a live input in Cubase.

    I think going Clean for sampling guitars and using the less processing possible gives the user much more possibilities to use the sound,
    taste is always an issue and doing them processed takes a lot of possibilities out of the equation like in all libraries i prefer mine totally without effects, it lets me decide what i want to process with it

    One encouraging note is there is a whole bunch of new amp simulators coming out this year from Steinberg, Ik multimedia etc... and this always brings me back to on thing : Nemesys Do a damn VSTI Version of Giga !!!!!!!

    Vintaudio Prod. www.vintaudio.com

    [This message has been edited by Franky (edited 03-03-2002).]

  9. #9

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    Hey Franky,

    Maybe we should insist that Gigastudio could use Direct X and/or VST plugins.

    I could live with a bit delay, I think.


  10. #10

    Re: Guitar library discussion for users and developers

    Yes Thomas, if Giga could use Direct X effects, that would be an acceptable solution, i doubt they could legally do vst effects though.
    Either way if Giga is to grow it\'s client base, they need to do something about this pretty quickly, although i could live with the effects they have already with the inclusion of Revalver.

    Kind Regards

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