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Topic: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

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  1. #1

    Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    Just an honest and open opinion.

    There is much talk and even more defending of this release as of late.
    Before I give my given Right of an opinion... I would like to say that I do appreciate the changes that have been made to this library. I find the programming to be first rate.

    I want to speak truthfully without biting the tongue and I, more importantly, wish to remind the reader that this is merely one users opinion. In addition, I feel it necessary to state that I have 12 Choir concert recordings attached to my resume as a recording/mastering engineer. Please do not take this as bragging. I merely want to state that I do have experience in the field. Yes, it is true that I have not yet been involved in a sampling project. Yes, I do understand the difference between the two.

    On to the matter at hand. I have mixed feelings about this product that may be driven by the need to rectify the cost.

    My first complaint

    Noise.
    There is still a strange, modem like tone that had only appeared at low C & D. This noise has seemed to surface, or dare I say leap out on other notes since the updates. I fully understand the noise game. I fully understand and welcome some noise in my samples. This noise is unmusical and does not add to any form of realism.

    Vibrato:
    The vibrato on the vowel samples, in the high register, is almost comical in nature. I have never heard a chamber setting of female vocalist make this tone.
    The pure .wav files are not chromatic in this range or at the extreme low end of the scale. They are stretched a whole step. This is the information that the editor in GSEDIT is showing. If I am wrong...then please allow me to apologize.

    Words:
    Great concept but the time spent on programing is not available for the work I do in Audio Post. I would much rather use SOV and it\'s melismatic phrases.

    Overall:
    I find it very hard to use this release in a solo sense. By this, I mean...
    If I blend and almost hide this Choir in a mix...I hear what VOTA can do.
    I find the overall character to have a cold and sterile tone. I can hear it\'s bigness. There is no question there. But, that is very limiting when considering the cost.

    I apologize if anything said here would influence sales in the wrong direction. I would doubt this. There are many here who hold this product very dear to them and whom have made great music with it. God speed! I apologize if anything said here is taking personally. I apologize if anything said here starts the, \"Great Flame War of 2002.\" Again, this is simply my honest and open opinion. Please remember I have that right...or, at least $459.99 worth

    Peace.

    ------------------
    Francis Belardino
    fbelardino@score4post.com

    Composer/Sound Designer
    www.score4post.com

  2. #2

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    Francis,
    Thanks for your opinion. I think all of us here value it.

    Cheers,
    Mark

  3. #3

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    Hey Francis, I think the soudn you\'re reffering too is what soudns like a 50-60hz cycle hum (maybe from a screen on the recording gear, or a some sort of electronic equip)

    Lower range stuff at quiet volumes tend to do this. Try pulling that or introducing a hum canceler. I haven\'t tried but it should help. Problem is cutting this stuff out cuts the low end frequency response. You may be able to get around it with cutting then doing some sort of \"bass enhancement\" with either a plug in that *creates* sub harmonics (not boosting existing ones...you\'ll jsut reintroduce the noise), or layering a pad or transposed sample with highs cut. At that low a range in the frequency spectrum formants are pretty indistinguishable/negledgible IMO.


    EDIT
    actually thinking about the actual noise. its probably not going to help with the hum canceler. I\'ll check it out

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 03-21-2002).]

  4. #4

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    Francis,

    Try a De-esser shelving above 12k.

    I find that this and hyperprism harmonic exciter help it out alot



    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  5. #5

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    I appreciate the opinion and there soesn\'t need to be a flame war. Maybe my problem is that I listen to too many Hollywood soundtracks. Because I can emulate exactly the choir sound in the last few John williams soundtracks as well as hundreds of other soundtracks. thats with no eq and reverb. I don\'t mean kind of similar, but exactly in many cases. If I could get the orchestra to sound as good, I\'d be happy.

    BAFFLED.

  6. #6

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    I agree with ya Nick,

    I\'m pretty surprised at the sound of VotA out of the box. As much as I hate Release triggers, they do have alot of character in VotA and they work well....nevermind Poly issues

    You have to understand tho that some people have different tastes. I\'m sure you do, but jsut keep it in mind. Also keep in mind that with customers price is going to play a big factor in waht they think of the library. SOV has much more variation than VotA, you have to admit that Still I like the sound of VotA and when I finally figure out how to write a big action score I know I\'m gonna be happy


    Francis,

    I\'ve figured out a way of removing the noise in the low pitch shifted Demons, and probably will be able to do the same with the Men\'s choir.

    The Plus is I\'ve figured out a way to share this all with you guys with minimal Sample editing. If you have any type of sound editor or multitrack playback it should be fine. However it will take some time to get it to sound correct.

    About vibrato. I can discuss with you via Email some techniques I\'ve used to get more consistant sustains in the high registers. It jsut gets difficult to explain here. Plus it involves some more editing than most people want to deal with.... tho IMO its not much and its a one time deal.

    libraries aren\'t perfect for everyone out of the box, the noise is debatable. Removing it can involve changing the character of the sound and compromising the quality of the sample, which is why Nick did the best he could I\'m sure.

    Still, maybe there are some tricks he didn\'t try...or maybe my convuluted way of thinking got some other ideas out that *I* think may work. .... I\'ll share soon....if it wont violite any liscence agreements and cause problems with watermarks... Emailing Nick about it

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

    [This message has been edited by KingIdiot (edited 03-22-2002).]

  7. #7

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    King. Let me get back to you on all of this. I am at the studio now (session starts in 5 4 3 2 1)

    Nick,

    I would also like to follow up.


    Thank you guys... for being gentlemen about all of this.


  8. #8

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    \"BAFFLED\" = \"There are many here who hold this product very dear to them and whom have made great music with it. God speed!\"


    \"Try pulling that or introducing a hum canceller\" and \"About vibrato. I can discuss with you via Email some techniques I\'ve used to get more consistent sustains in the high registers.\"

    When we deliver a sound design master to our clients we don\'t ask them to fix things. That\'s not their job. PS. King, your GOS short bows rock

    In short. I am sorry to not be happy with this release. I don\'t find it to be unusable but it is not my first choice.

    Nick, keep up the good work. You have many happy clients... it\'s all good. I can deal with the loss of money. It\'s all a gamble. I am sure that the next user will ask, this is an awesome library...hummm, why so cheap?\"

    Peace

  9. #9

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    I want to be completely fair in all of this as well. I don\'t want to imply that Nick is
    not a great developer. I just think VOTA is not what I expected.

    I want to also dig a little deeper ... many here think VOTA is what we need ... let me spend even more time with it.

    Let me use Kings suggestions...
    I know how many feel (King) about the out of the box thing... I will try again.

    Peace.

  10. #10

    Re: Just an honest and open opinion. VOTA

    Francis,
    You don\'t need to apologise or dig deeper. Thanks for the input. What \"WE\" need is of little importance to you.

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