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Topic: Leaving the forum...

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  1. #1

    Leaving the forum...

    Disregard. Please end this thread. I keep getting those email notifications and can\'t stop reading the posts...

    Scarbee

    Ups! I posted again - hey Z6 are you there?


    [This message has been edited by SCARBEE (edited 04-22-2002).]

  2. #2

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    Hmm Thomas, I don\'t have the image that you have of the situation here. Maybe there are a couple of people who dont \'like\' developers in general, who believe that you can create outstanding libraries with a snap of your fingers, think all libraries are too pricey etc etc., but I don\'t think that is the general attitude here at all. Sad to see you leave, and I think you might be overreacting. I didn\'t see anything but positive words about your libraries. Heck, the only reason I haven\'t bought any of them yet is that it seems I HAVE to buy them from the U.S. which will be pretty expensive for me since I\'ll have to pay double taxes and such.

    The worst cases of mudslinging here have been done by developers against other developers, IMHO, not from users towards developers.

  3. #3

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    Thomas, please don\'t leave. I\'ve always enjoyed your positive posts on this forum. I think the fact that there are so many high quality sample library developers around, mingling with the basic john doe\'s makes this place a very sensitive one for the developers since many users aren\'t aware that the developers are reading the forum, not to mention the ones who don\'t even care.

    I think your libraries sound incredible judging from the demos (and if I was doing anything that needed a realistic sounding bass you\'d be the first one I\'d turn to) and I personally don\'t think you should ignore any posts that hits you in the stomach. I think you as a developer can charge whatever you think is right for the libraries you produce (and I do believe your prices are reasonable to say the least!). Don\'t get discouraged by the lot of as*holes out there. You sell professional products for the professional end user. Not the average john doe\'s who don\'t know sh*t about the tedious process and art of sampling.

    Do yourself a favor and level yourself above these idiots. They aren\'t worth your time nor attention.

    Please stay,

    Thomas

  4. #4

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    \"Hi,
    I have posted many times on this forum and always enjoyed reading threads here. I have tried to raise the bar of sampling with my libraries and also trying to be helpful to users. But things seem to have changed lately...

    To be honest I feel both personally insulted and even discouraged to continue my sampling work when I post or read posts here. Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters? It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.

    There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.

    I hope that things will change and I will gladly return, but for now its \"bye\".

    sorry

    Thomas Hansen Skarbye\"

    ----------------------------------

    Thomas,

    I thought you were above this kind of threat to the end users of this forum? After all, you are here for us (the paying public) we are not here for you. Alot of the posters here on this forum and possibly including myself, are just plain full of themselves, you know that. There is only about 20-30 users on this forum who actively post. We all have an ego the size of Texas. I always laugh when a developer threatens to leave the forum only to come back soon enough to advertise their latest updates or releases. Public exchange of ideas,opinions, etc. in forums such as these are ALWAYS going to include heated debate at times. If you must leave, fine, no big deal. But advertising it like it\'s a punishment to the forum readers is kind of immature if you ask me.

    And again, since you posted this in a public forum you set yourself up for responses such as...

    \"Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing..\"

    I hardly think $145.00 and $200.00 a library is selling it out for nothing.

    \"It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

    DAMN STRAIGHT IT IS! Hey, Tascam is marketing this thing (GS) to totally different demographics now. With the release of Giga32 expect alot more of this attitude from end users. WELCOME TO SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT. You face the EXACT same issues us commercial software developers face every day. Nobody cares WHO writes the software, all they want is something that does the job as cheap as possible. Hey, I wish I could spend a year on a software title and sell it for $145.00 or $200.00 a pop but I can\'t. I spent 6 months on software and my highest price is $89.95. However, I did alot of research and I knew there would be a market for my software BEFORE I got into it. I read this alot, where sample developers start making a library just because they need it for themselves, then end up selling it and complain about piracy or the lack of sales!?!? DO SOME RESEARCH FIRST BEFORE YOU DEDICATE 24/7 TO A PROJECT! I recently read an article about another library where he did substantial research and comparisons BEFORE he jumped into the library. He knew even if it took 1-2 years to finish the library, he would be way ahead of the competition at the end of production.

    \"There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.\"

    FACT! Software/Sampled developers get no respect. Hey, with the right bank account perhaps you can get a full page ad and an article written about your library, WRITTEN BY YOURSELF and published in a well know magazine as another devloper recently did. THEN you might get some respect!

    If you\'re looking for glory, recognition, it aint\'t gonna happen. Perhaps you made the mistake early on of NOT doing it for the money. I sure as hell wouldn\'t work on something 12 hours a day and not expect a SUBSTANTIAL pay check at some point.

    \"I hope that things will change and I will gladly return, but for now its \"bye\".\"

    Well, it ain\'t gonna change. It\'s just human nature. I say, ignore the bs, comment when and where you want to. Sometimes it\'s best on a business level to not get involved with the bs that some of us (me!) post.

    I\'ve read some heated comments from you about piracy, lack of sales, and now this no respect thing. I can\'t help think on a business level you\'re just getting shafted by Tascam. I remember a few things you have stated to me privately, I REALLY hope things change for the better for you. Hey you might not be the best business man, but you obviously can produce stunning sample libraries. The sample market NEEDS you. (Notice I left out Tascam..) Hire someone to market your libraries. Let someone ELSE worry about these frickin forums, you stick to what you do best, composing, selling your music, creating kick libraries.

    For the record, when the J-PICK gets done I will have no problem spending $200.00 on the library. It will be WELL WORTH it to me.

  5. #5

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    Thomas,
    If you were to go, as one of your registered users, I would truly be disappointed. You have been one of the more positive forces here, and clearly have always seemed to have your user and everyone else\'s best interest at heart.

    The forum here, really just this developer\'s portion, has been a bit strange over the last few weeks. I can attest to the idea that visiting here hasn\'t been the highest on my list of things to do lately. I do presume that it will get better. I hope soon.

    I\'m a little puzzled by the exact set of events that would cause you to totally leave and certainly hope you will reconsider. You are wanted and needed here and I for one truly appreciate all that you\'ve done for me.

    With the very best of regards,
    Mark Knecht

  6. #6

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    I assume you are referring to me (and possibly Munsie and Tokyo Joe - because we were the ones who \'objected\' to the \'cartel\')?

    You already said \'Bye\'? Were you worried that you didn\'t get enough people begging you to stay?

    I won\'t apologize for being a consumer. And I won\'t apologize for mentioning that your \'cartel\' suggestion might not be such a bright idea. (Although I understand that you think that wasn\'t your suggestion - that Franky might be hurting other developers with his \'low prices\' meant something entirely different.)

    Has it ever occurred to you that the concept of high quality and a low price might not be mutually exclusive?

    I have stated here many times that I absolutely want developers to maximize their profits. Why wouldn\'t I?

    Why wouldn\'t I want you to maximize your profits?

    If consumers here are not allowed to talk about libraries (i.e. they have to buy the non-refundable goods and then gush great compliments at all the great artists) and they are not allowed to talk about prices, what are they allowed to talk about?

    Your business model stinks; that is why you don\'t make as much money as you\'d like.

    You say : \"Why on the earth should I spend 6 months, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day sampling and programnming a library to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters? It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

    Why indeed?

    I don\'t think anyone has a gun to your head? It may have escaped your attention but you are not the only person on the planet who works for a living.

    Am I to assume that you want to pay more for goods and services when you shop?

    Man, you can charge a million bucks for your stuff for all I care.

    \"to sell it out for nothing - to a prize set by anonymous forum posters?\"

    What could that possibly even mean?

    Thomas, if you want to go pouting over this, that\'s your business. And if people want to put me down as some kind of nasty individual for this then that\'s their affair.

    I can only suggest that you compliment your extensive sampling skills with some business skills and please read my posts more carefully instead of leaping in front of insults that do not exist.

    \"It seems to be the only issue here: to get most for least.\"

    No, it\'s not. And yes, I want the most for the least. I want the best libraries money can buy for as little of that money as possible. I want Hans Adamsen to make a fortune selling the Malmsjo for $100. I want Franky to make as much money as he can for selling his library for whatever it is he sells it for.

    I want Gary Garritan to make a fortune. I want you to make a fortune. Where on earth did you get your conclusions from?

    Did it ever occur to you that maybe some of the anonymous people here who have \'driven you out\' have skills of their own? That there exists in this world people other than sample developers? That perhaps you might gain from their knowledge on this matter?

    If you don\'t think you make enough money doing what you do, then that\'s tough. It is none of my business and you have no right trying to lay the blame at the door of others.

    Nobody stole your ball.

    And I am not anonymous. My name here, as far as you are concerned, is Z6.

    And finally, my good man (and of course you won\'t read this because you already left, twice) \"There is no respect left towards developers visiting the forum and I just can\'t accept this.\"

    I offer no respect for developers above that I offer any other human being. It is enough, and much more than you realize.

    Seeing as you are obviously such a nice guy (and as a developer, a VIP on this forum) and I am so horrible, I hope that the aid you seek will appear, and I won\'t have to find myself writing these ridiculous posts.

    It saddens me that you feel personally insulted and discouraged \"to continue your sampling work\", but we all have decisions to make in life.

    Maybe when this sector matures, some large corporation might employ you as a samplist and you won\'t have deal with all the crap that customers provide.

    And Thomas-J. Here we go. You took the bait. This is how it is here. Someone extracts an insult from a perfectly innocent post, starts crying and then others come in and call people idiots all over the place.

    There were no \'idiots\' posting on this. The posts were reasonable.

    Thomas_J please don\'t make this about something other than what it is. It has nothing whatever to do with the \'art\' of sampling. Nobody suggested that Scarbee\'s work was sub-standard.

    \"Average John Doe\'s\" indeed. You will, as you get a bit older, realize that you and I and everyone else is exactly that, whether we compose or sample or sweep the street.

    If Scarbee wants to leave, let him (and he\'s apparently not taking the short cut either).

    If you want me to head out, that is not a problem either. Perhaps Munsie and myself and Joe and many others should vacate the premises and you guys can spend all day complimenting each other?

    But if you ever have to make any money in this business, maybe it\'s time to follow Franky\'s lead and give the customer what he wants, instead of taking offence every time someone does something other than build a shrine to you.


  7. #7

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    All good points, but it\'s also important to remember that for every whining composer or sound engineer in this forum (including myself) there are dozens of satisfied paying customers actually USING your libraries to make some music instead of complaining about them.

    I think we forget what this is all about.

    I know I\'m new here, but it\'s just an observation. This is a really great forum MOSTLY, but it just gets bogged down in negativity sometimes.

    Sorry, I\'m also somewhat of a philosopher. I can\'t help it.

  8. #8

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vertigo50:
    All good points, but it\'s also important to remember that for every whining composer or sound engineer in this forum (including myself) there are dozens of satisfied paying customers actually USING your libraries to make some music instead of complaining about them.

    I think we forget what this is all about.

    I know I\'m new here, but it\'s just an observation. This is a really great forum MOSTLY, but it just gets bogged down in negativity sometimes.

    Sorry, I\'m also somewhat of a philosopher. I can\'t help it.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yes, but there were no complaints (at least from customers).

    I have not posted a single complaint about the (poor) quality of any library (although I have often posted raves) and the only time I ever really griped about a price was on Nick\'s RI - and I still bought it, and still believe I made a great purchase.

    I would never dream of critcizing Scarbee\'s work. Nobody even complained about his costs either. On another thread Scarbee said something about Franky\'s prices and a few people made observations and comments: that was it.

    I think Thomas must have something else on his mind. I even made a point on the thread to apologize if I\'d offended him in any way.

    But for goodness sake. If you don\'t want to post, just get on with it instead of all these childish antics.


  9. #9

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    Scarbee is one of the most positive guys on this Forum, as well as a great artist and devoted sample developer.

    He deserves some respect for the enormous amount of work he puts into producing his excellent libraries. Give him a break.

    I look forward to see you again on these pages when you feel like it Scarbee!

    Hans

  10. #10

    Re: Leaving the forum...

    Ditto, Hans.

    From a purely selfish point of view, the more we p*ss off guys like Thomas, the less hard information we have - which is what the forums are all about. It\'s not a loss for Thomas, he\'ll still get 5 star reviews and sell library, it\'s just a loss for the rest of us who use the forum to find out if he\'ll put feature \'X\' in his next release, or would he please put up some mp3s, or midi files, or would he consider sampling instrument \'Y\'.

    I also hope that Thomas feels like rejoining the forum a little further down the line.

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