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Topic: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

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  1. #1

    Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    After posting my worries about the Motif ES, I ran across this message from Yamaha marketing at http://www.sninety.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=1,3&Board=Plugboard&Number=27449& page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=28:

    \"One of the less obvious features of the ES is that the new chip will load LPC compressed waves. Almost all of the waves inside the Motif and other Yamaha products are compressed by LPC coding which means that you get twice as long a sample in typically half the size.

    What does this mean ? If you had 512 MB of sample RAM in ES and we created a 1 GIG piano and compressed it with LPC it would load into the ES. FYI, you can not edit LPC compressed files, they can just be played back.

    The biggest real world advantage is loading time in that a file that is 64 MB in length and is then compressed to 32 MB loads as a 32 MB file , that is in half the time of the original uncompressed file.

    The final advantage is that since it is compressed in a proprietary format it can only be read by the Motif ES and it can not be exported as .wav or AIFF . We believe third party companies will see this as a defacto copy protection mechanism ( it only plays back on Motif ES) and therefore make lots of libraries.

    They can take an exisitng CDROM and easily modify so that it loads in half the time. We wil be working with a number of them to either provide them with the compression tool or havea team of people here to do the compression for them.\"


    Sounds better and better. Has anyone been contacted by Yamaha about building these piano libraries?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    I fail to see what sounds good about that. Proprietary formats suck. This is exactly what some people are trying to do to software synthesis/sampling as well, but thankfully, the user base has grown accustomed to the freedoms of standard and transparent formats, and I don\'t think (at least I pray) we\'ll never return to a situation where proprietary formats are the norm.

    A friend of mine has a Motif, and frankly, I hate it when he brings it to the gig. The sounds are SO cheeseball, and so \"excited\" that they blend terribly with anything acoustic. I have this secret desire to run over the thing when we\'re loading out...

    Yamaha only wants to sell hardware, as much lip service as they gave to becoming a more progressive company. So far, no proof. This announcement of proprietary, non-importable/exportable formats (and motivations) is more evidence that they just don\'t get it.

  3. #3

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    I don\'t like hyped synth sounds either. As I understand it, the compression ratio means that this keybboard will let us load a Post\\Vintaudio\\Art Vista piano, and carry that sound around with an onboard sequencer. Not as good as having open standards, or working in a studio with all the pianos available on a hard disk, but not terrible.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    Originally posted by Jake Johnson:
    I don\'t like hyped synth sounds either. As I understand it, the compression ratio means that this keybboard will let us load a Post\\Vintaudio\\Art Vista piano, and carry that sound around with an onboard sequencer. Not as good as having open standards, or working in a studio with all the pianos available on a hard disk, but not terrible.
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">A rackmount Giga-rig is a thing of beauty.

  5. #5

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    How about a wise company create a giga type rack mount sound module that would have a onboard OS only big enough to run the software, and stream samples nicely from disk. With a HUGE RAM availability. For the purposes of gig-a-bility and basically just sample playback, a small screen the size of your typical Akai s5000 would be just fine. With a video connection in the back so you could connect a full size keyboard and monitor for editing back at the ranch... that would be a good way to go. But I don\'t see a 512M motif taking much of the market share. I want to be able to load more then a 1GB piano that\'s been compressed to 512.....

  6. #6

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    Hm..Did some quick research and it looks as though rack systems configured for Giga are in the $2200-3000 range. (About what the next Motif will be.) Anyone know of a good rackmount for less, or care to weigh in with their experiences with rackmounts?

  7. #7

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    Hi Jake,

    I\'ve got a P3 desktop which cost me $500 new. I run W98SE, have an Audiophile 2496 card which cost $179, and I have Gigasampler.

    For different musical needs NOT Giga, I was using my regular desktop in live situations for a couple of years, inside an SKB 4 rackspace case (cost around $200), with an added case cooling fan for ventilation. There\'s no reason this setup couldn\'t work with Giga live as well although I haven\'t tried it.

    It worked perfectly and was way economical, the only hassle being connecting and situating a 15\" flat panel monitor. If there were a smaller and easier monitoring solution I\'d be a happy camper. I wonder if anyone knows of one?

    So, bottom line, this system (without the monitor) cost around $1000.


    Regards,
    michael88s

  8. #8

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    Jake,

    Another alternative just to confuse you even more... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    I\'m currently using my Shuttle barebone PC as my live rig. It\'s mounted in a rack case along with a 15\" TFT monitor. When not gigging I\'m using it for Giga in the studio, but live I use Brainspawn Forte as my DXi/VSTi host application and different soft synths as sound sources such as Kontakt, B4, Albino and a few other synths. With Forte I also get typical live features like scene memories which basically is snapshots of the entire configuration in Forte including midi routing, active instruments, program changes within these instruments and so on which is great when playing live. Send a program change from your controller to Forte and you have a complete reconfiguration of all your instruments and inserted fx plugins within milliseconds...! Since I\'m using Kontakt, I\'m still able to use for instance Scarbees\' Rhodes and some of the large giga pianos converted to Kontakt live.

    One of the large benefits IMHO of going this route instead of a straight Giga route is that you also have access to all your VST and DX fx plugs from within Forte. Some Ozone Trash or Amplitube on the Rhodes doesn\'t hurt just to mention one thing.

    I\'m not in the US, but I think you should be able to get this machine including 1GB memory, a 15\" monitor and an ok sound card for around $1000.

    This rig beats every hardware synth I\'ve ever tried and it\'s definitely MUCH more flexible when it comes to new sounds and upgrades.

    /Mattias

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    This is exactly how my rig is set up, except it\'s a rackmount/flat panel combo. I have been using it live for FIVE YEARS in November!! Of course, I have put three or four different mobo/processor combinations in over the years, but I would never waste a cent on a hardware synth. They all sound like total cheese compared to the power of Giga, Reaktor, B4, Absynth, Pro-53, Kontakt, Vokator, FM-7...especially when you can use apps like Forte to control your live playing routines.

    It might seem like a pain to use a computer for a live rig, but it is not. My particular \"secret\" is using two Laylas for one machine. One Layla is mounted in the studio, the other in my live rack with my wireless, mixer, and trusty Digitech Studio 400 (which will probably be the next thing to go at this rate).

    So, all I do is slide the computer out of the IsoRaxx, grab the rack with the second Layla, load up controllers and stands, pack the computer and monitor in their flight cases, and I\'m out the door. It takes about 20 minutes.

    You won\'t be able to build this system for the cost of one hardware keyboard, but you can build it for less than the cost of two...and I\'m talking Anvil Cases, casters, anywhere-in-the-world gig readiness.

    This is also the way I deal with external studio use. My room at home is a wonderful mix and voiceover/overdub facility (especially since I had the Auralex consultation and treatment), but sometimes you want to go for a big iso-room or run a large session. A rig like this allows you to hit any studio fully ready to go--whether as a player or as a producer.

    Sorry for the slightly off-topic turn. When it comes up, I always encourage people to invest in software solutions based upon my very happy experience. Even when Giga was GigaSampler, I found this rig to be as stable as any I\'d used, just as easy to set up, and infinitely better sounding on stage. GigaStudio made it even better, and all the great soft-synth advances (and increasing CPU capability) have made hardware synths a relic of the 20th century in my practice. I still keep a couple around for sentimental reasons, but they rarely even get turned on any more.

  10. #10

    Re: Yamaha supports 1 gig pianos for next Motif. Franky? Michiel?

    So tell me, all you gigging-PC-riggers...

    why wouldn\'t a laptop work in this same situation?

    I mean, if you are not streaming 160 notes off of the drive, but maybe 30-50 from GIGA of Kontakt, or whatever, a few soft synths, etc.

    If I don\'t mind the quality hit by using the onboard soundcard line out for live use...

    then what is the drawback to just loading up a laptop for live use, as opposed to the rack? stability?

    comments?

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