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Topic: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

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  1. #1
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    VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    I was just thinking that it might be beneficial to all those interested in attempting to realistically emulate a full orchestra with GigaStudio that is may be productive for forum members to occasionally provide mp3\'s of mockups from the available literature for others to audition. It seems to me that this should be a very relevant topic on a GigaStudio Sample Library Discussion forum, since in directly involves the use of the currently available libraries as well as the other elements involved in using them (sequencers, applied reverb, midi control, etc.)

    I\'m not advocating a competition as to who does it best (although this would become quickly apparent), because the results would obviously be a reflection of your studio gear and sample libraries. But the capacity of the current libraries to perform in this regard, and the development of the next phase in symphonic articulations, should be extremely relevant topics in this particular forum, shouldn\'t they, or is my thinking in need of massive recalibration?

    Shouldn\'t many GigaStudio forum members want a chance to test their approach and equipment in emulating symphonic works, given the time and money they have invested. If forum members were interested in partaking in a few small projects, it would then allow them to directly see what the state of the art in virtual orchestra actually is, and how their own setup and approach currently compares. Is this not the essence of what many involved in movie scores and classical orchestrations and compositions are visiting this type of forum for, acquiring the knowledge and latest tools to create the most convincing orchestral realization possible?

    So, I decided to use myself as a guinea pig, and subject myself to the scathing wrath of the barbarian horde that inhabit this forum. But if you read between the lines accurately, you will correctly conclude that it would actually please me much more to hear somebody else clobber my rendering (outlined below), as this would obviously give me the necessary insights into what I must do to improve things, cause I\'m not going to stop trying.

    It is unfortunate that other forum user projects seem to fade away without actual results, but I can\'t believe that this type of activity is not an ongoing event on a GigaStudio forum. Let me put it this way. I have tried to create a setup where I have a permanent virtual orchestra set up in Giga stations awaiting instructions from my sequencer (in my case I usually use my \"modified version\" of Sibelius) and controller keyboards. There is a substantial investment involved (Garritan, Vitous, Dean, etc, etc.) and one could easily apply the metaphor that I have a bunch of virtual musicians sitting around inside a pc box waiting for the next gig (pun intended) when the conductor (sequencer) decides to give them a workout/practice session. As such, it\'s no big deal for me to take on a few bars from the classical literature (or movie scores if one can get them) and do a work up. It\'s supposed to be fun and satisfying to do this. It is the essence of what my studio should be able to easily do. If you have things set up optimally, don\'t you agree that this type of activity should not represent a bothersome challenge, but instead only a quick little workout that should yield important information about the state of your virtual orchestra\'s adequacy, as well as prompt discussions on topics such as the current practical deficiencies in both sequencers and sample libraries, etc.

    Because I feel that extended string passages are particularly difficult to emulate, I decided first to sequence a good old fashioned romantic piece (Brahms Third Symphony, Third movement) that features long string lines. You may not like Brahms ,etc. but should this really matter, you want to give your virtual orchestra musicians a workout and I assure you, they do like Brahms. Next time, forum members may want something by Shostakovich, Bruckner, John Williams, Ravel, Peter Vasks, who cares, it\'s the results that matter.

    So, should anyone be interested, I would gladly send an mp3 of this mockup by email, as well as a midi/Scorch/Sibelius file should you need it, or a few bars of the sheet music if necessary. I\'m unfortunately not currently set up for posting mp3 on the net, but if someone would volunteer a temporary residence on their site, it would be great because it would be easier for forum members to audition the files. I also could send along a mp3 of a small part of an actually recording of the piece for comparison purposes, if this is ok in regards to copyright, etc. (could someone advise? thanks).

    I\'m certainly not suggesting this is a particularly well-done rendering of this music. It does provide however, a reasonable template for discussion and how one might approach making improvements to get extremely realistic results. As I suggested, I felt this particular piece was a bit more ambitious because it didn\'t rely so much on attacks, but instead sustains and phrasing dynamics. (Also I wanted to demonstrate to those skeptics who believe Sibelius cannot function as an effective sequencer that they may be approaching things the right way, it is lightning fast and you never have to leave it classy environment, but that\'s a whole other story).

    If GigaStudio sample library forum members feel that this approach is not worth the effort, well that\'s valuable information also. There may be much more practical ideas for involvement in the development of our common goal of realizing convincing symphonic orchestrations and movie scores. But a lack of interest in pivoting your own virtual orchestra investment against the real thing to allow objective comparison on a site dedicated to Giga sample libraries will, in itself, also reveal much about the actual state of the art in symphonic realizations. But that\'s also another whole topic.

    Happy arpeggios and sorry for the extended length of this post.

  2. #2
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    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?


  3. #3
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    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    Me Me Me Please....Thanks. 0.5Mb Max.

  4. #4

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    YES!!! This is very much needed. I think sequencing a convincing orchestral mockup is the hardest thing a programmer can do. I do tons of professional work, but I\'m stumped when it comes to making an orchestration sound good. don\'t know why, just can\'t do it. I have the Peter Siedlechek (sp?) library, and if I had to say today, I\'d say I hate it. But their demos are so awesome... how\'d they do it? I wanna know and I think an online forum is the best way. It\'d be real appropriate for Northern sounds or someone to allow us to post somewhere. But until they do, I\'d be happy to let you post a mockup on my site. Does anyone know how to give access to a directory, but not the entire site? Thanks

  5. #5

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    I\'m game and I\'ve actually suggested something like this before. The only way to learn how to make a create recording is to look at the midi file and see what has been done to it.

    Send me the file.

    donnie@dssoundware.com

  6. #6

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    Originally posted by donnie:
    I\'m game and I\'ve actually suggested something like this before. The only way to learn how to make a create recording is to look at the midi file and see what has been done to it.

    Send me the file.

    donnie@dssoundware.com
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Yes donnie has adn with GOOD reasons...in comparing libraries...I would STILL like to have a contest sometime though given a same MIDI file and talent

  7. #7

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    Great idea!

    I\'d like to hear the file. ********** Thanks.

    Martin

  8. #8

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    Gungnir,

    I would really like to hear the file too i would be very interested to look at the midi file if that is possable?

    Many thanks

  9. #9
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    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    Possibly a realistic and technically achievable goal for virtual orchestration (for the purposes of composition and some movie score mockups) is to sound like a third-rate real orchestra, playing late at night after just returning from the local pub.

    But even to do this, the approach to sampling and sequencing will have to change significantly. Will a new string library (actually that pdf file announcement has been available for some time now) really allow virtual orchestration to forge ahead to where it must go, or prove to be an exercise in redundancy due to its content?

    At this stage do we really need more trills, pizzicatos and sound effects? Aren\'t the \"sound effects\" we require now in a new string orchestra collection divisi sections, undulating string tremolos (on adjacent strings), muted viola detaches, pp attacks, and portamento slides at several different tempos. Some espressivo detache and sustains at different dynamics will be certainly welcome and lets hope that Sonic Implants have concentrated on this crucial aspect.

    I have send along the mp3\'s by email to those requesting them including those who sent private emails. Hardy Heern and J. Whaley will you post your email addresses here so I can send them along to you as well.

    The point of this whole thing is very simple: we can only evaluate the state of the art of virtual orchestration by copying pieces that will can easily compare to real symphonic ensembles. There is no point in using people\'s compositions to evaluate the current calibre of library sounds, because there is no reference point on which to judge. In many cases compositions are a function of the axiom \"you don\'t control your sampled sounds, they control you\".

    Thank you for your interest in this project. This type of involvement on the GigaStudio forum is the only way virtual orchestration will become a true viable option in the near future. I believe that this is the type of thing a Giga Sample Library forum should be doing continuously: rather than talking about sounds, let the sounds do the talking!

    Cheers, Gungnir.

  10. #10

    Re: VIRTUAL ORCHESTRATION - The Fate of the Art?

    I think this sounds great, is there anyway we can get a FTP site to post to? My email will not handle tons of MP3s.... anyone got suggestions? For now though, since I wanna hear it, send it to me.

    jeremy@w3productions.net

    Thanks gang. I look forward to some great info coming out of this

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