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Topic: Missing note-off/hanging notes

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  1. #1

    Missing note-off/hanging notes

    Just installed Gigastudio 160 and got a strange problem with MIDI (sometimes notes are left hanging without note-off recognized...).

    Here is my configuration:

    Windows XP SP1, 3GB RAM, 2 WD hard disks (80GB and 250GB), MOTU MTP AV (USB), MOTU 828mkII Firewire. CPU is AMD 1.4GHz. MIDI keyboard is Alesis QS8.

    I use MTP AV as my multiport MIDI interface. I was just trying to play Alesis QS8 connected to MTP AV. I don\'t have to play many notes for this to happen. For example, just playing 3 note chords on Giga Piano would make it happen from time to time. Some note-off events would be missed or sometimes even note-on events would be lost so some notes within a cord wouldn\'t play...

    Any suggestions? (I\'ll try later to connect with Sonar 3 and see if the same happens if the stuff is played from a sequencer, I may also try using MIDI port on 828mkII or even on my PC).

    I\'ve never seen this with the Sonar 3 plug-in synths, e.g. Edirol VSC, etc.

    Any suggestions/experience regarding this problem?

    Thanx,
    Bogdan

  2. #2

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    i get this sometimes on the mtpavusb coming out of my mac, but only when it is pumping a lot of midi data.

    i\'ve heard others confirm this, but never gotten a concrete solution.

    write motu and complain, i think it\'s something with the mtp.

    anyone else have a clue?

  3. #3

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    Hello Bogdan,

    I had this problem last week. After extensive trial and error, it turned out to be a bad stick of RAM. You might try testing the RAM. Of course, you may have a different problem from mine.

    If your RAM test results are good, then I suggest a thorough and methodical diagnosis of the entire MIDI signal chain, starting at the MIDI keyboard controller all the way to the GigaStudio input.

    A very handy utility for monitoring MIDI activity on the PC is MIDI-OX. Get it at www.midiox.com

    Good luck and let us know how it goes,

    Kevin

  4. #4

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    Originally posted by pmuse:


    I had this problem last week. After extensive trial and error, it turned out to be a bad stick of RAM. ...

    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">Thanks Kevin. I downloaded the memory test utility from the place I got memory. I downloaded the latest MIDIOX. I downloaded the latest MOTU MIDI drivers. I even managed to download the 2.54.00 since the site seems to be working now. So, I\'m armed and ready to shoot. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I\'ll try these tools and will report the progress as soon as I\'m done. May take a few days to try all possible combinations, etc.

    Bogdan

  5. #5

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    A word on MIDI-OX to be aware of. Me and Kevin were working on the Cirque Du Solie \"O\" Show at the Bellagio a couple days ago and we put MIDI-OX on one of the Giga rigs there. (they use GigaStudio to play individual musician parts when the musicians are out) We found out the hard way that they were using Windows XP \"Home\" edition. That edition has the old 10 MIDI port limitation that we know about with early Windows 95 & 98 versions. This is not a problem in the \"Pro\" edition of XP. Anyway, we needed to use the MIDI yoke to configure a filter between the keyboard and the GigaStudio. The extra ports brought the whole system down to a crawl and they had to use the backup machine for the show. Also, we could not for the life of us remove the damn midi yoke driver no matter what we did. It acts like a virus and reinstalls itself no matter what. We managed to finnally trick it into giving us access to the dos with a repair mode in XP and delete the dll file. We even removed it from the device manager and searched and removed the refernces to this dll in the registry, all at once. The reboot, and.....its still there. The only solution was to erase the system and start over.

    Crazy eh? If anyone knows how to deal with that virus that is supposed to be a friendly program, let us know. Its harmless though if you have XP pro or Win98SE.

    Cheers
    Dave

  6. #6

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    Originally posted by David Govett:
    This is not a problem in the \"Pro\" edition of XP. Anyway, we needed to use the MIDI yoke to configure a filter between the keyboard and the GigaStudio. The extra ports brought the whole system down to a crawl and they had to use the backup machine for the show. Also, we could not for the life of us remove the damn midi yoke driver no matter what we did. It acts like a virus and reinstalls itself no matter what. We managed to finnally trick it into giving us access to the dos with a repair mode in XP and delete the dll file. We even removed it from the device manager and searched and removed the refernces to this dll in the registry, all at once. The reboot, and.....its still there. The only solution was to erase the system and start over.

    Crazy eh? If anyone knows how to deal with that virus that is supposed to be a friendly program, let us know. Its harmless though if you have XP pro or Win98SE.

    Cheers
    Dave
    <font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">I had a problem similar to yours with midi yoke/Gigastudio on W2K. It stopped everything. It even affected Sonar.

  7. #7

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    Thanks everyone for the help. I have solved the problem. Here is the overview.

    1. I installed new MIDI driver for MOTU MTPAVUSB. It didn\'t help.

    2. I checked my 3GB RAM. It checked OK! Good to know [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    3. I installed GS 2.54.0 and no change.

    4. I recreated the problem in Sonar using Edirol VSC synth (a bit harder to get notes to hang, but still possible). Initially, I thought this was OK.

    5. I installed MIDIOX and Yoke and determined that the Alesis QS8 is OK and that the problem is on the route between the MTPAVUSB and the software synth or GigaStudio.

    6. I switched from MTPAVUSB to using MIDI port on 828mkII and the problem went away completely. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    7. I cleaned up Yoke since it blocked GS from starting (GS would freeze on start and would never go past the banner screen).

    8. I plan to blow away all the crap I was doing using my Ghost image of system partition and reinstall new MIDI driver for MTPAVUSB and reinstall 2.54.00 from scratch. I will be using 828mkII as MIDI interface for my MIDI keyboard. The MTPAVUSB still works OK for other types of routings including MTC/MMC stuff. I will be sending e-mail to MOTU describing all of this and pointing out potential bug in their XP driver, or issue with the USB based MIDI. I\'m not sure if they require USB 1.0 or USB 2.0. I have both on my PC and I may try using USB 2.0 to see if it would make any difference here.

    In summary, MTPAVUSB seems to have a problem when routing MIDI input note-on/off events toward the software synths. It is strange since MIDIOX still received all the necessary events from MIDI driver (MTPAVUSB). Nothing was missing there. However, MOTU MTPAVUSB driver seems to have negative side effects on software synths and causes them to loose note-on/off information under certain conditions. I\'m still puzzled with the fact that it didn\'t cause trouble to MIDIOX, but only to VSC synth and GS. I\'m not sure how likely is that the problem is with the VSC and GS rather than MTPAVUSB. The fact that everything works with 828mkII does not necessarily mean MTPAVUSB is at fault. It could be even something within XP that handles differently USB vs. Firewire.

    Thanks again everyone!

    Bogdan

  8. #8

    Re: Missing note-off/hanging notes

    \"7. I cleaned up Yoke since it blocked GS from starting (GS would freeze on start and would never go past the banner screen).\"

    There you go, just what we experienced. I bet you have XP Home edition.

    Cheers
    Dave

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