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Topic: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

  1. #1

    If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Three years of saving, study & hard work. I built my \"dream-DAW\" and it\'s great. Only it doesn\'t (*&%^%#$%#^%%*&^(*& work!!!

    My rig:
    Athlon XP 2500+
    512 MB PC2700 SDRAM
    80 GB SEagate Barracuda IV ATA 133 7200 RPM HD
    80 GB Maxtor Diamondplus 9 ATA 100 7200 RPM HD
    AOPen AK79D-400VN NForce 2 Motherboard, latest drivers downloaded
    NVidia 5200 AGP video card, 128 MB SDRAM
    Onboard soundchip (disabled in recording profile)
    Aardvark 24/96
    Asus CD RW Drive slave 1
    Asus DVD drive slave 2

    Windows 2000, System Pack 4
    Drives defragged, DMA enabled
    BIOS flashed to latest
    Video, sound & Aardvark drivers all updated
    Antivirus run

    Sonar 2.2
    Gigastudio 32
    Soundforge 7

    Well, the problem seems to be all MIDI-centric.

    When I try to load sounds in Gigastudio, I get \"Msg32.exe has encountered errors and will now be shut down, or occassionally \"PAGE_LOCKED\" blue screens (apparently a driver problem); I\'ve tried several incarnations of upgrades, all with the same effect. Nemesys/Tascam have been pretty much mute.

    Putting that aside, in Sonar, when I choose \"Aardvark Audio\" under \"MIDI input\" I get MIDI activity lights flashing with my keyboard, but Sonar doesn\'t record any tracks.

    And when I choose \"Aardvark Audio\" under \"MIDI output\" the sample MIDI tracks provided with Sonar are silent (though Sonar appears to be playing them). I can hear them when I enable the onboard soundchip, however.

    So I wrote to Aaardvark, and Ben has been kind enough to respond quickly, but what he said has confused me.

    Although I recorded a very amatuer-level cd previously with a Delta 44 for audio and a Soundblaster for MIDI, I wanted to do a QUALITY job this time, so I opted for what I THOUGHT was an \"all-in-one\" solution -- the Aardvark. But now Ben says, \"none of our products have a built in MIDI synth. If you don\'t like the performance of your onboard soundcard, you can use a higher quality consumer soundcard with a built in synth, such as the SoundBlaster Audigy. Or, if you don\'t feel like adding another card to the PC, you can purchase a GM (general MIDI) compatible sound module to generate the sounds.\"

    Now I admit to being profoundly confused. I thought the \"Aardvark Audio\" options for MIDI inputs/outputs in Sonar meant I could use the card for MIDI-controlled audio samples. Apparently not. Ouch.

    I\'ve performed Aardvark\'s diagnostics and they indicate the audio and MIDI ins and outs are all functional.

    God I hope some kind soul can help me out of this EXPENSIVE, NONPRODUCTIVE mess.

    To clarify:

    1. What can I do to get Gigastudio functioning? (Or an alternative like Kontakt, if I HAVE to throw out another 300 clams)?

    2. How can I get to the point where Sonar is RECORDING the MIDI signals from my keyboard?

    I swear good karma will come your way if you can help me sort this out. You guys have collectively already taught me so much....

  2. #2

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius


    Are you saying you get absolutely no midi from the keyboard at all. Can you open up an event list and see nothing or do you get note ons, etc.? If you\'re not getting any midi all I can say is have you tried new midi cables?

    As for playing the sample midi tracks have you checked the midi channels to be sure that the tracks are playing anabled channels?

    The good cards generally don\'t have midi synths built in, they assume you\'ll use pro software (like Giga). I hope by now you\'ve figured it out and it was probably something really simple. I know how daunting these issues can be. My advice would be to try and isolate the problem. Do the midi outs work with a different keyboard or sound module? midi cable? And as you mentioned latest drivers?

    The Msg32 error could be that Giga can\'t find a functional midi output? Good luck.

    Steve Chandler

  3. #3

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius


    I\'ve seen your posts on several boards, and while I don\'t run on a similar setup as yours, I think I have some general info that might shed some light on your problems. All DAWs and DAw software pretty much do the same thing, some better than others, so here we go...

    1.) I\'ve seen posts about the Nforce2 boards -- based on some posts that I\'ve seen, it looks like whatever issues people were having with that board have been worked out. YOU NEED TO CONFIRM THIS ON TWO LEVELS:

    a.) Are there known issues with Nforce2 and the aardvark?

    b.) Are there known issues with Nforce2 and giga?

    If you can\'t answer \"definately no problems\" to both a and b, then you\'re not going to get very far. Please confirm those first. Again, I\'ve seen a lot of communications around about how VIA chipset compatibility issues have been cleaned up with giga and aardvark, but you need to verify if you haven\'t already. I\'ve also read recently about some people recommending the .27 drivers instead of the .29 drivers for the aardvark. Something to look into.

    2.) My understanding from your post is that you\'re trying to play giga samples through the aardvark MIDI out -- I hate to sound patronizing, but this is all wrong!!! Really, I don\'t want you to take this personally, I just want you to understand all the interconnects between hardware and software. For all you ascii art fans, grab some rice cakes, sit back, and enjoy!

    </font><blockquote><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">code:</font><hr /><pre style=\"font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;\">
    +--------+--- Aud In 1/2, SPDIF, etc.--------------------------------+
    | | |
    | +--- Aud Out 1/2 &amp; 3/4------------------------------+ |
    | Sonar | | |
    | +--- MIDI In ------ &quot;Aardvark Audio&quot; ---+ | |
    | | | | |
    +--------+--- MIDI Out -------+--+ | | |
    | | +-----------/|\\------+ | |
    | | | | | | |
    | | | | |&lt;=&gt;| |
    | | | | | | |
    +--------+-- Nemesys Port 1 --+ | | | |1/2| |
    | | | | | |3/4| |
    | +-- Nemesys Port 2 -----+ | +-+-------+---+-------+---+
    | Giga | | |MIDI Audio Audio |
    | +-- Aud Out 1/2 &amp; 3/4------+ | IN Out In---+= Aud in
    +--------+ | | +-------------+= Aud out 1/2
    | | +-------------+= Aud out 3/4
    | +----------------------+= MIDI in ---+
    | Aardvark ...+= MIDI out |
    +-------------------------+ |
    &#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;& #0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124;&#0124; |
    +-------------+ |
    | MIDI Keys +-------------------------------------+
    +-------------+</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size=\"2\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">All device labels (MIDI IN, Audio out, etc.) represent software devices, except for the labels on the right side of the aardvark diagram, which are physical connects. Here\'s an overview:

    a.) Audio is recorded in Sonar through the aardvark audio in devices (you have one stereo pair)

    b.) Audio is played back through one of the aardvark audio out devices; you have two choices -- device 1/2, or device 3/4; you can use both if you want, but not when using Giga at the same time; see item \"e\" below

    c.) MIDI is recorded in Sonar by configuring the \"Aardvark Audio\" MIDI IN device in Sonar

    d.) MIDI is played back through whatever MIDI port devices are configured in Sonar -- in the above configuration, Sonar has enabled Nemesys Port 1 and Nemesys Port 2 MIDI OUT devices (actually, I think Giga32 may only have one MIDI port); if you don\'t have a physical device connected to the aardvark MIDI OUT, then there\'s no reason to select \"Aardvark Audio\" as a MIDI OUT device in Sonar

    e.) Sound comes from Giga in the same way that audio is output from Sonar -- giga is configured to output through either device 1/2 or device 3/4; you can use both for giga, but like item \"b\", not while using Sonar at the same time.

    It is important to note that the Aardvark does not provide a hardware MIDI synth like a SoundBlaster or similar card. That seems to be a point of confusion. You need to run a software synth/sampler (which you have); the software synth is output through the Aardvark audio out devices 1/2 or 3/4 (or both) using ASIO, GSIF (for giga), or DirectX drivers. Avoid DirectX drivers when doing low-latency audio work. Some software also uses a type of audio driver called WDM Kernel Streaming. I mention this because Sonar will use those drivers if they\'re available, and they may provide the best performance, depending on audio hardware manufacturer.

    One last thing on MIDI IN/OUT in Sonar -- to be able to play the keys and have the MIDI flow through to the target MIDI device (e.g., Giga) you need to enable \"MIDI Thru\" in Sonar. Otherwise, Sonar will record the MIDI but you won\'t here it while playing, though you should always get output during MIDI playback.

    3.) Audio output devices, GSIF drivers, and ASIO/WDM drivers

    Here\'s the kicker: you have 2 stereo output pairs to choose from, but you need to make sure that one app isn\'t clobbering the other when trying to use audio devices. As mentioned, you can use both stereo pairs when running Giga or Sonar in solitary. When using both apps at the same time you need to pick one stereo pair for Giga and the other stereo pair for Sonar. A single audio device cannot be \"bound\" to two different drivers at the same time -- one app needs to \"own\" the output device, at least for the time it is being used. Attempting to share audio devices may be the source of some of your crashing problems. Contemporary audio card drivers support \"multi-client\" use, where one device can be opened as one GSIF and another as ASIO, etc.

    Hope this helps.

    -- Keith

  4. #4

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Wow! Holy sh*t, Keith!

    Thanks muchly for taking the time out to explain so thoroughly.

    I know my p\'s & q\'s pretty well when it comes to assembling/repairing pc\'s or networks, but not very well when it comes to assembling DAWs, apparently.

    Your advice is most sincerely appreciated. I didn\'t find it patronizing, as I am a newbie to much of this.

    I will check out the nforce chipset-aardvark & -giga issue posthaste; I\'d installed the latest drivers (& BIOS!) but will look at other incarnations as well.

    Hell of a lot of good direction in your post. Once again, thanks muchly!

    [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  5. #5

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    I\'ll try and give you a shorter path (I\'ve only got about two minutes).

    Get rid of that sound card. I\'ve had the same issues. Went through the same msg32.exe errors & blue screen.

    Two cards later and I found an INSTANT work out of the box.

    Try Tascams PCI-822 Card - I don\'t know if the format of this card will work. What I mean is it has TDIF, SPDIF, Midi in/out X2 and that\'s it, no AUDIO (as in a/d\'s - d/a\'s) in or out.

    If this will work for you (like if you have a digital mixer) go there - NO RUN there!!!

    Fastest point from A to B!!!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  6. #6

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Ouch! A serious hit on the wallet! Thanx for the input though.

    BTW, your website lists \"stringed indruments\". Might wanna fix it, bro.


  7. #7

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    There is no issue with nforce2 and Giga.

    I have an Asus mobo with the nForce2 chipset, using Sonar 3 and Gigastudio and Maudio 2x2 USB.

    My sound card is the Wami Rack 192L. Very stable, no problems here.

    You may want to try to uninstall giga, delete all Nemesys registry entries and reinstall Giga again. But from the looks of it, it seems your Aardvark is the problem.

  8. #8

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Just thought i would throw this in the pot..

    I use a Delta card to control giga and its also an audio rendering card in cubase... i dont have any issues using all the outputs in giga and in Cubase at the same time...

    I dont mean to start anything here just thought i would mention it...

    Oh the last time i has MSG errors in giga.. I just reinstalled it and it was ok again.

    Another thing might be if something is messing with Msg32 on statup... that can be a pain in the neck... you might try disabling items you dont need..

    As i said before this is information only...as im sure you have tried this before.. its just when im problem solving i always miss the easyest things on the grounds that \"It couldnt be that\"... Oh by the way kbaccki, thats one cool drawing... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  9. #9

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Oh bunnies... forgot something...In the new version of sonar...you have to arm the track for it to pick anything up...you cant hear it play either (As in if you press a key on the keyboard) it doesnt seem to loop the midi back to the controller until the track is armed...

    Im not saying that this is the gospel truth as i only have (Very) limited experience in this around a mates studio. I may be wrong...just seemed a funny little quirk or a supreme case of user error on my part..

  10. #10

    Re: If you can help me solve this, I will hail you as an uber-genius

    Hey Mike thanks for the site heads up. Composing only these days and no time for sample devo - but I\'ll fix it.

    Those cards are actually pretty cheap. @ $175.00 - might be worth it.

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