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Topic: Basic question but really need help!

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  1. #1

    Basic question but really need help!

    I have tried and tried to figure this out on my own, so I apologize about asking a dumb question. I have an existing MIDI that I'm adding GPO instruments to in my Cubase LE. I cannot figure out how to utilize (or where to look for) to use the features such as the Mod Wheel, Sustain, Note Velocity that GPO has. Where do I go to 'enter' these expressions in my music? Also, I do not understand the "CC17" type of numbers. Where do you enter these in music? Please help.

  2. #2

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Well, I really don't have Cubase LE, so I don't know exactly how it works with that software. Anyway, most sequencers have similar features. For example, surely it has the "piano roll" window. On the top of that window you'll find a keyboard on the left and a grid on the right sides. And below them shoud appear a "graphic" area where you can draw values for midi data. Usually it shows "Velocity" values, but you can select any parameter like Mod Wheel, Sustain, etc.
    cc17 means Controller Change #17. Each midi controller has it's own number. For example Mod Wheel is 1, Sustain is 64... So you must select that controller number on the "Piano roll" window in order to draw the values for it.

    Of course, there are other ways to enter controller data, like an external midi controller.
    I hope you'll find this useful.

  3. #3

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Sandswillis, you were steered absolutely right by Coriolano.

    I used Cubase LE for awhile since it came with GPO, and it was working fine for me. The LE version is just very limited in its mixing options, so I switched to Sonar. But Cubase's MIDI implementation was actually better--Mostly because in the Piano View, which Coriolano was explaining about, you can have a number of controller panes open at the same time. That means that you can work back forth between whatever controllers you want to work with--primarily cc1 and cc64 for GPO, and see both streams of data at the same time. You open a window for each one you want to see, and they're all there at the same time under the piano scroll. In even the most advanced versions of Sonar, you can still only open One controller pane at a time--!--calls for a Lot of jumping into the menu, click click click click.

    The Piano Roll View is really very intuitive once you dive in, since things are moving on a linear time line, and when you're drawing in data, up is more, down is less--You'll get it. AND the time fixing up your MIDI files to work with GPO will be well worth it.

    Just be prepared for a good investment of time. I had a huge project, a two hour musical, which I needed to adapt from regular MIDI to GPO--and it took me a year. And that was working every day. SOooo--That's an unusual circumstance, to have that much music to adapt, but the point is, there's a lot of work ahead of you.

    Just ENjoy it!

    Randy
    rbowser

  4. #4

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    In even the most advanced versions of Sonar, you can still only open One controller pane at a time--!--calls for a Lot of jumping into the menu, click click click click.
    In my fairly advanced version (6 SE) I can see every single CC of the entire project in the same pane, if I want to - which I don't! In short, you select which CC's of which tracks are to be visible, and you choose whether they be visible in the piano roll pane itself (which makes it very easy to adjust CC's to notes) or a separate window below the piano roll. Maybe it's time to upgrade?

  5. #5

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Hi, Nickie

    Thanks for the reply. Yes, it would be nice to upgrade, but the studio budget can't squeeze it in right now. But, what you said confirmed what my understanding already was about even the newest version of Sonar:

    "...I can see every single CC of the entire project in the same pane..."

    In Cubase, each different CC you want to have displayed is in a separate pane, not the same one.

    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but what you described is what I've heard other Sonar 6 users describe, and as it's described at the Cakewalk site--multiple controllers can be displayed in a superimposed way in one window--rather a jumble.

    But what I'm saying about Cubase, is that a new window pane is opened so Only that one controller is displayed in it, but you can open as many panes as your screen has room for.

    It may not sound useful if you haven't worked with it, but it made for much smoother, faster editing to see cc1 in one pane, cc64 in another, velocity in another, for instance. I could tweak a velocity, tweak the cc1 volume and see how the controllers are interacting--and there wasn't the constant clicking of a menu to see what I wanted to edit.

    Am I mistaken, and Sonar now has separate panes for each controller?

    Randy
    rbowser

  6. #6

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Am I mistaken, and Sonar now has separate panes for each controller?
    Not that I know of, and I doubt it is something I would ever miss. I fail to see the advantage of having panes scattered all over the place. But, that is a matter of taste and working style, I guess

  7. #7

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    Not that I know of, and I doubt it is something I would ever miss. I fail to see the advantage of having panes scattered all over the place. But, that is a matter of taste and working style, I guess
    In Sonar, all CC's do appear in a single pane; however, you can show/hide any combination.

    For example, if you have CC1, CC11, and aftertouch (like you might for the Strad), you can hide CC1 and aftertouch while fine-tuning your expression. Likewise, you can hide CC11 while fine-tuning CC1 and aftertouch for the vibrato. As previously stated, it is just a matter of preference. Personally, I like how these are all shown in a single pane, because I want to see the relationships between the different components. I want to be able to see that expression and vibrato are moving in realistic relation to each other.

    EDIT: Now I see that Nickie mentioned this already... nothing to see here

  8. #8

    Re: Basic question but really need help!

    Hi, Nickie

    Naturally it's impossible to really know what it's like to work with tools until we actually have. So it's not really a matter of taste and/or working style when we're comparing what we know to what we don't know--not until one has been exposed to alternates to our current way of working do we know what our preferences really are. We only know what our habits are.

    You have something incorrect though--I didn't describe what I was talking about well enough. The various panes, one for each controller that you call up, aren't "scattered all over the place." They are all beneath the main Piano View scrolling display window--all neatly stacked horizontally oriented panes, all contained in the block of Piano View. And of course you can make them any size you want.

    Seeing and working with cc1 and cc64 simultaneouslywith such a clear, unobstructed view was a revelation to me. And it was a big disappointment to see this ability not included in Sonar. I've gotten used to the slower way of working, and it's OK, because the majority of the rest of Sonar I find superior to Cubase.

    Hello, Tfish--you said, "...I want to see the relationships between the different components..."--and that's exactly what you see more clearly in the Cubase method.

    Randy
    rbowser

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