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Topic: GPO in existing MIDIs

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  1. #1

    GPO in existing MIDIs

    Most of the pieces I'm wanting to use GPO on are already notated. I've saved them as MIDIs and have been adding the awesome GPO sounds to them. The trouble I'm having is adding the expessions (sustain, MOD wheel, etc.) to my existing MIDIs. Does anyone know how to do that? It is more work to take an existing MIDI compared to inputting it directly?

  2. #2

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    While there are some utilities by Markleford that convert velocity to cc codes, etc and various other tips, advice and threads on this very topic splattered around this forum, in my estimation, it is equal. Ie it takes as long to convert a good midi file to a decent GPO performance as it would to start from scratch. Why? Because
    • any repeating notes are going to need special treatment to avoid machine gun effect -ok this wil be present in the midi file, but you don't want that in your gpo masterpiece - there are whole threads in this forum dedicated to ridding yourself of machine guns and some involve a LOT of work on your file. When I have converted midi files to GPO, this has been the biggest single 'cost' incurred and I pray that GPOa will deal with this workflow problem
    • the midi file probably doesn't contain too much in the way of expression and you are going to want plenty of expression (cc1) in your GPO masterpiece for it to sound right (or at all)
    • the midi file will rely on velocity a lot to control dynamics, but your non-velocity instruments (ie non-keyboard, percussion) will expect velocity to merely be dealing with attack/legato, not dynamics, so more work there needed to ensure dynamics are right and velocity is not creating the wrong attack
    • your midi file probably contains lots of tricks to recreate things like tremolo and trills - you are going to need to think about key switches or splitting midi channels to get GPO to perform them, and removing whatever tricks (repeating, alternating notes) that have been used in the midi file
    • your midi file is probably restricted (ie it is) to 16 channels and many orchestral scores include double or more of this number of parts. Often shortcuts are taken to overcome this in a midi file and program changes included within a channel to switch between instruments. You will want to expand these channels to different tracks, with different GPO instruments as GPO won't respond to these program change messages
    • your midi file may contain 'standard' orchestral percussion mapping, your GPO does not comply with that and you are going to have to remap any percussion parts
    • the balance between instruments is often set in midi file via volume cc messages which, unless you set up GPO specifically to receive, will be ignored by GPO. IF you configure GPO to receive them you will regret it as you will find instruments set at distortion creating +10dB. In short, you will need to strip out all the volume cc codes and start from scratch
    • if there is pitch bending in your midi file, then it won't sound the same in GPO without a bit of work either on the pitch bend ranges or the pitch bend control codes.
    • the sustain pedals behave differently according to your GPO 'options' settings. If you have normal sustain instruments (eg piano) and non-sustain instruments (eg violin, where sustain controls legato/attack) then there is a whole lot of new work for you to sort out including making a copy of your GPO dll file so you can have both types living harmoniously. And I bet your violin/clarinet parts in your midi file don't have any sustain pedal in them - get pedalling!
    In short it can be a lot of work to convert someone else's or your own midi file to a GPO performance - ie it is not a shoe-in - but the result is worth all the effort.

  3. #3

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    LOW gave you an excellent and thorough reply--I just wanted to add, in case you didn't see my reply to your other post with basically the same question,--it took me a solid year to re-work my 2 hour piece. I mean from existing MIDI files to GPO. But it was well worth the effort. COmparing my new versions to what I had before (via hardware synth) is nothing but --WOw remarkable.

    rbowser

  4. #4

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    I'd say only a small thing or two beyond LOW's magnum opus...

    *Very often notation is entered in step-time so the timing will be too tight.
    Try to randomize note-on and -off times in a sequencer or in your own notation program. That will add an element of humanity to the score.

    *Some sequencers and notation programs allow controller re-mapping, so before you strip all controllers out of the file, see how it does volume (CC 7 or 11) and see if you can remap CC 7 or 11 to CC 1 Mod wheel for the appropriate GPO sustaining instruments.
    That may or may not translate well, but it's worth a shot!
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  5. #5

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    I was just about to get some MIDI files and edit them for use in GPO when I came across this thread. Turns out that's not the way to learn the tips and tricks .

    So, I was wondering, is there anyplace where GPO MIDI files are posted? I mean MIDI files exported from a sequencer where GPO was used, so I can load them into my sequencer (Tracktion), plug GPO, load the correct instruments, and hear the result. I'm guessing looking at the MIDI will help us newbies learn better how to take advantage of GPO.

    Does this exist? Do we have GPO MIDI files somewhere on the Garritan site, in this forum, or somewhere else?

  6. #6

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    Quote Originally Posted by luisto
    I was just about to get some MIDI files and edit them for use in GPO when I came across this thread. Turns out that's not the way to learn the tips and tricks .

    So, I was wondering, is there anyplace where GPO MIDI files are posted? I mean MIDI files exported from a sequencer where GPO was used, so I can load them into my sequencer (Tracktion), plug GPO, load the correct instruments, and hear the result. I'm guessing looking at the MIDI will help us newbies learn better how to take advantage of GPO.

    Does this exist? Do we have GPO MIDI files somewhere on the Garritan site, in this forum, or somewhere else?
    Luisto,
    There are several demo files available on the site that are of high quality and can be used to show GPO's many fine points. Please have a look in the demo area.
    MIDI files taken off the internet are often of doubtful quality and often need additional processing to work well with GPO--or any library, for that matter.
    If a MIDI file is quantized, I will humanize it and then substitute CC1 for CC7 or CC11, whichever the file uses for volume. This part can be done mechanically in a notation program such as Overture, or in a sequencer.
    Far more work is involved in getting rid of unneeded patch changes, since MIDI has only 16 channels to work with and VST has no such limitation to 16 channels.
    Then I can turn to matters of mudsical interpretation
    Having done this all a bit with MIDI files, I can say:
    *A lot of it is mechanical and does not consume much time.

    *Sometimes the process works well, sometimes not...depends on the quality of the original file and how much time you want to spend.

    *Sometimes it's just easier to start from scratch

    *Whether the process works well or not on a certain file, it is a always valuable learning process and will increase your GPO skills!!

    But the demo files here do a fine job of showing GPO well! I would download them and set up GPO in your sequencer.

    Best,
    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  7. #7

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    Jim, thanks for the tips! Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I can't seem to find the MIDI files in the demo section of the Garritan web site.
    Am I looking in the wrong place?

    Thanks!

    Luis

  8. #8

    Re: GPO in existing MIDIs

    Luis, I'm glad you looked around for the GPO MIDI files which were suggested, but I couldn't remember ever seeing them -Just the MP3s of finished mixes, as in the links you posted here.

    Snorlax--if you know where MIDI files are stored at the Garritan site, please let us know.

    But meanwhile, I think there are experienced users here who could agree to sending you MIDI files of their own work, not posting it, but sending it to you privately. Maybe you can start a thread specifically requesting that.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

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