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Topic: Controlling attack

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  1. #21

    Lightbulb Re: Controlling attack

    Hi Everyone,

    I have the same problem. Attack is very load no matter what I do.

    Stradivari Manual page 31 last paragraph states:
    "The intensity and sharpness of the attack are mainly linked to note-on velocity, while the subsequent sustain is controlled by the expression pedal. This gives the possibility of reproducing different articulations."

    The note-on velocity is not changing the loudness of the attach no matter how soft I push the key. I decided to ignore the keyboard and enter couple notes into Logic Pro using the Piano Roll and make the velocity at minimum to see if the will make it change. And it does not change.

    Increasing the velocity has no effect on the loudness of the attach. it stays the same. Changing the Impression CC#11 value does not effect the attack either.

    Conclusion: The keyboard or the impression pedal are not the real problem.

    I'm sure there is a good explanation to this and only Gary or Giorgio will know the answer. Guys please HELP

    I emailed the Garritan team about this problem today and just wanted to share this with the forum to get your feed back. Is this similar to your case?

    Have a great Thanks Giving Holiday,
    Thomas Anthony

    Mac Pro
    Logic Pro
    Komplete 5, Kore 2, Real Guitar, GPO ... etc.
    Korg Pa1X

  2. #22

    Re: Controlling attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Anthony
    Attack is very load no matter what I do.
    that's strange, it's not what it's supposed to behave like (even if I don't like the actual behavior either...). In that case I would honestly look for a fault in the setup somehow.

    BTW, my direct mail about this issue to the support 3 months ago resulted in nothing but the information that "Giorgio has replied in the thread". Hmm. As far as my English skills go, I understand Giorgio replied that he was not replying and that he wasn't to blame for this... or do I get something wrong here?
    Uli Reuter
    film composer, Germany

  3. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
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    Salisbury, UK
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    312

    Re: Controlling attack

    Quote Originally Posted by tfishbein82
    The cello plays much better than the violin; it's too bad we probably won't get an update for the Strad.
    Why would this be so? The christmas go-round sale must have sold hundreds of new Strad copies. It is not the Garritan philosophy to leave a program hanging in that way. Many of the Strad issues, later put right in the Gofriller, were not things that required re-sampling, just re-scripting.

  4. #24

    Re: Controlling attack

    Quote Originally Posted by dermod
    Many of the Strad issues, later put right in the Gofriller, were not things that required re-sampling, just re-scripting.
    Yeah, but the script programmer (G. Tomassini) apparently doesn't work for Garritan anymore. And it is not all that easy to work on a program, developed by somebody else.

  5. #25

    Re: Controlling attack

    Dear friends,

    Since the Stradivari and the Gofriller were made available, I got several emails basically reporting the same problem, i.e. too strong attacks, feeble sustains, and a lot of bow noise.

    Well, in ALL cases, it turned out that the problem was due to a missing CC11. Lack of an expression pedal, incorrect routing of a physical controllers to CC11, or a keyboard (some old Fatar) sending CC7 instead of CC11, were the most common causes. Enabling CC11 input always solved the problem.

    In a few cases, too strong attacks were due to an incorrect velocity response of the KB, incapable of sending low velocity values. Velocity remapping within the sequencer solved the problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uli Reuter
    BTW, my direct mail about this issue to the support 3 months ago resulted in nothing but the information that "Giorgio has replied in the thread". Hmm. As far as my English skills go, I understand Giorgio replied that he was not replying and that he wasn't to blame for this... or do I get something wrong here?
    Uli Reuter probably overlooked my reply to Clay as of January 26th in this same thread:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=51365.

    “Clay,

    This issue has been thoroughly analyzed.

    I checked the relative loudness of the attacks vs. sustains, by sending their output to different channels, using an unlocked copy of the Stradivari vers. 2.01 in K2.

    I could verify that if both CC#11 and velocity are set to very low values (say < 5), the attacks are at least -25 dB (peak value) below the sustains, i.e. barely audible.

    Are there other possible causes for the problem you're reporting? Are CC#11, and note-on velocity effectively set to very low values? You should check this with a sequencer. Some pedals, and keyboards, are indeed incapable of outputting very low values.

    Giorgio”.


    As to the correct interpretation of my reply to Dermod, please judge yourself:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermod
    Judging by another thread, I think Georgio by now may have decided to take his ball away and not come to this playground anymore. Which would be sad.
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...t=51365&page=2

    Dermod,

    I believe you would not blame me for doing this, after all.
    But I'll be always available, at least for theoretical discussions.
    Giorgio

    giorgio.tommasini@fastwebnet.it


    I’m a doctor, and I spent my professional life in public hospitals. In my country, medical care is freely available to anyone. So I’m used to the idea of providing assistance independently of the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    Yeah, but the script programmer (G. Tomassini) apparently doesn't work for Garritan anymore. And it is not all that easy to work on a program, developed by somebody else.
    Please note that Giorgio Tommasini is not the script programmer, nor did he ever work for Garritan.
    The Stradivari Violin and the Gofriller Cello were created by Giorgio Tommasini, Stefano Lucato and Gary Garritan, who also sells these products and is responsible for all marketing strategies.



    Back to technical questions. The idea of linking portamento rate to the overlapped note velocity was appreciated by many users. Other solutions would imply using an additional controller, and this may be impractical for real time playing. With the sequencer one may easily lower the velocity of staccato notes. This may be a simple and effective way of solving the problem reported by Uri and Dermod.

    Anyway, the above issues could have been discussed, and possibly solved in new updates. The decision of not pursuing the solo strings project was not mine. Sorry about this, but I can’t help it.


    More recently, I’ve started to get emails reporting excessive attack loudness, now apparently independent from CC11 and velocity settings. This appeared when loading the instrument in Kontakt3.

    I could verify that K3 is indeed responsible for this malfunction.

    The programming of the envelopes and the modulators has been modified in K3, so the attacks no longer respond to the already discussed interaction of velocity and CC11. While this may be disappointing, please consider that both the Stradivari and the Gofriller were released, and are supplied, as K2 Player virtual instruments. Moreover, they perfectly work if imported in K2.

    Backward compatibility of a new sampler, such as K3, can obviously be provided by NI only.

    Sincerely,

    Giorgio

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, UK
    Posts
    312

    Re: Controlling attack

    Dear Giorgio

    Thanks very much for contributing that reply and underlining your personal commitment to users of your outstanding and unique program. The only thing that really makes many people frustrated is the apparent doubt that the other essential instruments to complete the string quartet may not now be forthcoming. The viola and an alternative violin would be enormously appreciated. A Contrabass would be icing on the cake for string orchestra enthusiasts.

  7. #27

    Re: Controlling attack

    I also say thank you very much for clarification Giorgio.

    I see clearer now. I think (this is not at all a criticism in you) the fact that the solo strings project is not longer pursued could be made public more clearly (or at all) by the manufacturer.
    I still can not really see (that has also nothing to do with you Giorgio) why the need to play velocities lower than a value of 5 to avoid attacks would be in any way practical for life performance, but I'm aware that discussion will lead to nowhere.

    Good luck

    Uli
    Uli Reuter
    film composer, Germany

  8. #28

    Re: Controlling attack

    Quote Originally Posted by Uli Reuter
    I also say thank you very much for clarification Giorgio.

    I see clearer now. I think (this is not at all a criticism in you) the fact that the solo strings project is not longer pursued could be made public more clearly (or at all) by the manufacturer.
    I still can not really see (that has also nothing to do with you Giorgio) why the need to play velocities lower than a value of 5 to avoid attacks would be in any way practical for life performance, but I'm aware that discussion will lead to nowhere.

    Good luck

    Uli
    I agree 100%!!

    The Gofriller is fun to play but the Strad is very frustrating to control. And yes, I utilize CC 11, sustain, expression pedal, keyboard scaling etc...

    I hope someday there will be a patch to bring the Strad up to the standard of the Gofriller ( Strad SP2 ) regardless of the production the viola and an alternative violin. Until then, it will stay in it's case waiting to be played.
    Bosco Adama

  9. #29

    Re: Controlling attack

    Hi Sergio (and Gary too!)--

    I haven't visited this thread for a long time, but I just installed the Gofriller and am blown away by how well it plays and how sweet are the attacks compared to the Strad. The preceeding dialogue on this thread has been a curious one, to say the least. Giorgio:

    A. I appreciate your work on these instruments, and admire your personal priorities. Thank heaven for the example you Europeans set on universal health care!

    B. Accepting that you're a busy man, though, your lite replies to this thread suggests that you haven't looked at the reported problem seriously enough. The low-velocity-attack problem is real, and ought to be fixed. The fact that it's been successfully addressed in the Gofriller proves my point.

    The Strad was/is a groundbreaking software product. So it's no surprise that it has a serious bug. But it's supposed to be playable "in real time" without the need to go back into MIDI to mellow out the phrasing. To be blunt, these harsh attacks make it difficult--no, impossible!--to make your Strad sound real using an ordinary, good quality MIDI controller setup.

    I know this is easily said--I'm just an end-user, not a product developer.
    But if the Gofriller can be released without this problem, it seems obvious that the Strad ought to be fixable without major retooling (of course I can barely program my cell phone, so I could be wrong!) Personally, I'd be willing to pay a modest upgrade fee to get this otherwise lovely violin to play as well as the cello.

    Gary, what are the prospects for this, if you please?


    Clay

  10. #30

    Re: Controlling attack

    I recently purchased this product and am having the same issue. I use a Yamaha XS8 as my controller and find that if I concentrate real hard I can control the attack, but inevitibly at some point, my violin turns into a fiddle.

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