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Topic: Stradamazing!!!! - The Discussion on Tone

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  1. #1
    Senior Member jonray's Avatar
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    Stradamazing!!!! - The Discussion on Tone

    Today I installed the Strad for the first time and after a few teething problems which were eventually sorted , I got it up and running.

    Bloomin' eck!!!! I did THIS in an hour:

    http://my-mp3s.music-4-schools.co.uk...n_Raybould.mp3

    Remember this was straight out of the box with no explorarion of advanced key switching, trills etc, just with a bit of volume (expression controller) and modulation (vibrato intensity) tweaking.

    What an instrument!!! Love it!!! Heh heh Heh!!! Gary - thank you so much for the Group Buy!!!

    Cheers
    Jon Raybould

  2. #2

    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonray
    I did THIS in an hour
    I hope you will re-render this piece. After having heard this one I certainly won't buy the Strad.

    Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    I agree a bit with Raymond. I know you did it in one hour and that is a great effort, but please make Mendelssohn happy and make it a real Midsummernights Dream.

    Regards

    Gerard

  4. #4
    Senior Member jonray's Avatar
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    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Hi guys,
    Thanks for the feedback.

    Raymond and Gerard - if I could get a few pointers about how technically I could tweak things to try to make Mendelssohn a little more happy, I'd love to hear more!!


    Houston - what did I do in my next hour? See
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=50626
    (Almost literally that took up my next hour)!!!! LOL

    Richard, Larry, Bob, David, Vic - Appreciate your comments.

    Best
    Jon

  5. #5
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    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Great job jonray......as Larry would say (hope you're still doing OK Larry!) Cor Blimey!

    I'm on the point of buying this library, and probably will, but still have concerns about the tone at times.....and I'm very torn about it. I've complemented JerryW on his piece http://frontiernet.net/~jerrysmusic2...lein_Mild!.mp3 and you, yours.....they are great.

    However, I thought that Dan's Jesu violin and cello piece (and Dan has the greatest of skills, which I greatly admire) Yesu Parvule sounded like a harmonium to start with!.....I stress only for the first second or two.... until I knew what was happening (not having heard the piece before). Then the dreaded (to me) occurrence of the hollow tones were spotted....at 13, 18, 22, 27, 47-50, 55, 59secs and at 1:01min.

    I've even gone through a lot of my violin CDs to check if my memory deceives me....but no....I've not heard real violins with this hollow, recorder/clarinetish? sound.

    I'm very puzzled by this as obviously the violin has been very carefully recorded but something, somewhere in the technology causes this hollow sound which is quite un-violin like. It's often fleeting but, sometimes, spoils the effect for me and actually jars my senses.....not enough to prevent me buying it (I hasten to add) as I hear other great stuff from it but maybe I'll have to avoid using it in a certain way....or in a certain region of pitch/ velocity or something?

    If anyone can say why this is (and I'm, pretty, confident that it isn't the actual violin recorded. I say this as I've just listened to a lot of violin music before daring to post this)

    I found the early Gofiller cello demos exhibit the same problem but hopefully this will be improved before release.

    I'm very interested in understanding what causes this effect as I've heard it, on and off, for the last 20yrs from the early electronic orchestral organ days.

    I reiterate, I still think the library has more than enough to make the current offer price attractive (although, I don't think any solo instrument should sell for more than $50-100 (as I've said many times....not when compared to the price of full orchestra libraries). The library has great expressive abilities although I'm not a believer in practicing any part to the degree that I could add all the controllers in realtime.....I'm an advocate of adding those after entering the part.....(admitting that I haven't used it yet! )

    Any ideas anyone?

    Frank

  6. #6
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    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hardy Heern
    this hollow sound which is quite un-violin like. It's often fleeting but, sometimes, spoils the effect for me and actually jars my senses.....not enough to prevent me buying it (I hasten to add) as I hear other great stuff from it but maybe I'll have to avoid using it in a certain way....or in a certain region of pitch/ velocity or something?... Any ideas anyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    I hope you will re-render this piece. After having heard this one I certainly won't buy the Strad.
    I think there are many factors affecting the sound of music and sometimes it is a subjective thing too. There have been heated arguments for centuries about real violins - the Stradivari having a nasal tone where as the Guarneri has a golden tone, and vice versa. Mixing also plays a factor. The Stradivari takes time and practice.

    Many times it is the artist and their skill level with the instrument. If you put a real Stradivari in the hands of a beginner it will not sound very good. And if you put an old pawn shop violin in the hands of a master, it will sound ever so sweet. This is why education and practice is important. I think the following excerpt from the famous poem by Myra B Welch may shed some light:

    The Master's Touch


    It was battered and scarred
    and the auctioneer thought it scarcely worth his while
    to waste much time on the Old Violin but he held it up with a smile.

    "What am I bid Goodfolks?" he cried. "Who'll start the bidding for me?"
    It was "a dollar... a dollar.... then two"... only two.
    "Two dollars and who'll make it three?"
    "Three dollars once - Three dollars twice - And going for three"
    But No!...

    From the room far back,
    a gray-haired man came forward and picked up the bow.
    And wiping the dirt from that old violin...
    and tightening the loosened strings...
    You know, He played a melody pure 'n sweet, as the carillon angels sing.

    Well, the music stopped,
    and the auctioneer in a voice that was quiet and low...
    Said: "What am I bid for the Old Violin?" And He held it up with the bow.
    "A thousand dollars! Who'll make it two?

    Two thousand! Who'll make it Three?"
    It was "three thousand once"... "three thousand twice"...
    and "Going for three!" said he.

    Well, the people stared...
    But some of them cried: "We do not quite understand!"
    "What changed its worth?"
    Swift came the reply... "It was the Touch of the Master's Hand."
    ...

  7. #7

    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    I've heard this hollow/nasal sound out of a violin many times, it's just that it's fleeting in the capable player's hands, and they tend to steer away from it when they hit that tonal quality. And in some cases, players actually *look* for that quality in order to cut through an ensemble - a characteristic that make the Stradivari a particularly prized instrument amongst soloists through the ages.

    I think that people declaring one way or the other based on recordings is listening through rose colored glasses - because that's based on an artificially produced sound - that of a recorded, mixed and mastered performance of an instrument of a particular character.

    Every girl looks pretty in her prom dress, and every solo violin recording worth publication has a beautiful round tone.

    The SSV is capable of producing a nice round tone of that quality, but it takes time, practice, and facility with the instrument, as well as better-than average mixing and mastering chops to make it nearly-indistinguishable from a recording of the real thing.

    I say again - I double-dare anyone to come this close to a genuine sound one hour out of the box - on any virtual/sampled violin instrument.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  8. #8
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    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonray
    Today I installed the Strad for the first time and after a few teething problems which were eventually sorted , I got it up and running.

    Bloomin' eck!!!! I did THIS in an hour:

    http://my-mp3s.music-4-schools.co.uk...n_Raybould.mp3

    Remember this was straight out of the box with no explorarion of advanced key switching, trills etc, just with a bit of volume (expression controller) and modulation (vibrato intensity) tweaking.

    What an instrument!!! Love it!!! Heh heh Heh!!! Gary - thank you so much for the Group Buy!!!

    Cheers
    Jon Raybould
    Jon,

    For one hour of playing with the library you have done extraordinary! Usually I tell people it takes a bit of practice to learn to play the Strad. You did fantastic on your first attempt and you did this library justice. It will only get better and better.

    This Listening Room here is for sharing music among members and to learn and it is not an official demo area. I don't know why some would feel the need to rain on your parade. Some simply do not understand the spirit of this community and the listening room. Those who don't own the library simply may not understand how radically different this instrument is.

    Do not let the few comments dampen your enthusiam. Keep up the good work and thank you for sharing your excitement. We are here to help you get the best use of the library. Please continue to share your talent and your music.

    Thank you for posting this and best wishes for the New Year.

    Gary Garritan

  9. #9

    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    They must have put something sour in the water over there in the Netherlands! Think “positive, constructive feedback,” guys. Otherwise, your comments are less than pointless. Rule of Thumb: When someone is so obviously having a great deal of fun while exploring a new instrument (read: Excited!), don't charge in with your biggest, heaviest wet blanket and try to squelch the enthusiasm. If you don't like what you hear either give some helpful suggestions or find something more productive to do with your time (gardening is a nice hobby!)

    Jon, the Strad *is* an exciting instrument to play, isn't it? I found it difficult to put down when I first tried it a few weeks back. It's simply astonishing how intuitive it is to play. Giorgio and Stefano have done a fantastic job with this instrument. Only those who have played it will understand. There's a simple solution for anyone who doesn't like what they hear – don't buy the product. The loss will be yours. The rest of us will be enjoying the thrill of this marvel.

    As to the demo: If that's what you've managed to accomplish in just an hour, Jon, I can't wait to hear what you'll be doing in the coming months! Remarkable.

    Tom

  10. #10

    Re: Stradamazing!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    They must have put something sour in the water over there in the Netherlands! Think “positive, constructive feedback,” guys. Otherwise, your comments are less than pointless. ....... If you don't like what you hear either give some helpful suggestions or find something more productive to do with your time (gardening is a nice hobby!)Tom
    I think I'll stick to gardening.......
    I could have said the following, like this one in a musical joke:

    At the end of a tenor solo of one of the operas of Verdi, the crowd clapped, shouted and praised the singer. Only one guy kept saying "bis, bis, bis". The audience turned against him telling to stop this and the guy next to him asked why he over and over repeated "bis, bis..."
    He replied: "I wanted him to sing it again until it is right".

    I really know that you have to put in a lot of effort in "programming" the sound to get it right and sound like a Stradivarius or any other well build violin (and according to the Italic story of Gary, it takes a master to make it really "sing" ).

    But just after having heard a real master on the Strad, I stumbled upon this one.... and decided that it has a long way to go.

    I seriously regret your comments and instead go for gardening.....

    Raymond

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