• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 5 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 48

Topic: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    I'm soon going to leave logic 5 (pc) for either logic 7 (mac) or another PC DAW.

    The feature that has always stopped me switching to another DAW package is the Piano roll (which I use extensively to fine tune my performances / correct my poor playing). As far as I can tell, no other package comes close to logic's implementation of this editor.

    Specifically what I'm after is simply :

    - Velocity information displayed in / on each note block, preferably by colour, for immediate identification. (rather than on a seperate bar graph)

    - Good implementation of the right mouse button so that I can quickly change multiple paramaters (eg. position & velocity) without changing tools / windows.

    - Visually pleasing / informative UI


    Other than switching platform to mac logic, what are my options? Am I wrong to think that Cubase and Sonar are inferior in this particular department. Is it possible to customise them (or any other PC package) to achieve this functionality.

    My thoughts at the moment are that PC daws are failing badly in their implementation of this fundamental and seemingly simple function (which is pretty much as old as computer sequencing itself!) - am I wrong?

    Chris

  2. #2

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisr
    - Velocity information displayed in / on each note block, preferably by colour, for immediate identification. (rather than on a seperate bar graph)
    Cubase has that. The colour can based on any of velocity, pitch, channel, part, or grid match.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisr
    - Good implementation of the right mouse button so that I can quickly change multiple paramaters (eg. position & velocity) without changing tools / windows.
    In Cubase parameters like position and velocity are displayed right under the toolbar and you can set the values there by entering the value on the keyboard. Or you set the velocity by a single click on the controller lane (what you call a separate bar graph). Position of both start and end is easy to adjust just by clicking on the end and dragging.

    - Visually pleasing / informative UI
    Cubase is ok I think. Some aspects of the UI could certainly get better but I don't find that it gets in my way too much. What I miss is better integration with virtual instruments. Eg. I wish Cubase could be notified of which keyswitches a certain instrument uses, making it possible to provide a better UI for controlling articulation switching. I don't have much experience with other sequencers, so I hope someone else here is going to be able to provide you with advice about how to choose.

    Nils

  3. #3

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Quote Originally Posted by kotori
    Cubase has that. The colour can based on any of velocity, pitch, channel, part, or grid match.

    Nils
    I didn't know that - and it's just the sort of info I was after, thanks Nils!

    Is it possible to set the controller lane to show points instead of bars ? - so that velocity information for more than 1 simultaneous note is shown ? (you can see what I mean below linked from the cubase4 website - the bars overlap - are all the chord notes the same velocity? I can't tell whether I'm just seeing the loudest notes)



    Also are you saying the only two ways to alter velocity are to enter it (per note) on the keyboard, or by moving the mouse down into the controller lane window? There's no option to alter it in the 'main' piano roll itself ? In logic this can be done by assigning the velocity tool to the right mouse button - you just right click a note or group of notes and move the mouse up or down. Done. Also you can easliy reduce or increase the daynamic range of a group of notes in much the same way.

    This powerful, simple implemetation of parameter control in the logic piano roll is what has kept me from switching up until now. I always assumed that Steinberg or Cakewalk would just copy those ideas/implementations wholesale one day.

    Anyone else want to chip in? Particularly if you've experience with the logic matrix.

    Thanks again for you reply Nils!
    Chris

  4. #4

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisr
    I didn't know that - and it's just the sort of info I was after, thanks Nils!

    Is it possible to set the controller lane to show points instead of bars ? - so that velocity information for more than 1 simultaneous note is shown?
    I don't know of any way to do this.

    Also are you saying the only two ways to alter velocity are to enter it (per note) on the keyboard, or by moving the mouse down into the controller lane window? There's no option to alter it in the 'main' piano roll itself ?
    You can also alter the velocity by using MIDI input. Eg. you can select a chord, click on the velocity field on the toolbar and then press a note of the desired velocity and the velocity of the selected notes will be altered keeping the relative velocities of the selected notes the same. Having to click on the toolbar seems to be an annoying extra step. I don't know if it's possible to avoid this.

    Anyone else want to chip in? Particularly if you've experience with the logic matrix.
    Yes please, I hope more people will share their views on this.

    Nils

  5. #5
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Out of my Mind
    Posts
    1,858

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Sonar 6:



    (Right Click on note brings up the box)

    Box Zoomed:

    I prefer to close the bottom tab and work this way. You can see exactly what bar belongs to what note, and select any number of notes and move the bars up or down at the same time:

    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  6. #6

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Brian, how would you handle a chord when there are multiple simultaneous notes or when the notes are very close to each other? The Logic solution where you can just right-click on a specific note and drag up/down seems simpler than both Cubase and Sonar, if I'm not missing something.

  7. #7

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    A shot of the Pno Roll on Logic 5 - showing velocities as points in the 'controller lane' (hyperdraw in logic) and colour coded note velocities on screen. Right clicking (hold and drag) a note or notes alters velocity(ies) relative to each other. Right clicking off notes (hold and drag) alters dynamic range of a group of notes (down - compresses/up - expands). It would need a video clip to do it justice really...

    I'm really hoping for something with similar visual impact and ease of use. I understand that I might be able to tailor another package to suit - and also that there are very useful things the others have implemented that Logic (particularly v5) doesn't do - but this is 'bread and butter' editing for me.


  8. #8

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Blaske
    Since you're already up to speed on one of the deepest and most flexible sequencers on the market, why switch?

    Lee Blaske
    Yes, I may go Mac - but that would mean a change of platform/OS, so either way I've got some fairly big changes ahead. (been putting it off for years...)
    I'm happy that the platform change would not be such a big deal. Just like to explore other avenues before I do.

    I think all the main DAWs / sequencers out there are pretty impressive. Strange that my biggest concern would be over "basic" midi editing, given the 'whizz-bang!' nature of the many audio delights on offer! I guess that's a reflection of the type of music I write / produce.

    I may find that my working practices change...

    No doubt there's room for midi editing improvement in all packages. I'm a bit surprised that there hasn't been more "idea stealing" of the best bits between rivals - realise it's a complicated affair though...

    Thanks all for your input!

    (Any other win Logic 5 folks facing the same dilemma your thoughts / experiences would be much appreciated. Do you feel you're missing out on the newest audio developments? Were you happy with the soft/hardware switch you made?)

  9. #9

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisr
    (Any other win Logic 5 folks facing the same dilemma your thoughts / experiences would be much appreciated. Do you feel you're missing out on the newest audio developments? Were you happy with the soft/hardware switch you made?)
    Interesting theme

    I still stick with Login 5.5.1 on windows as long as possible....

    And while I still miss the brilliantly easy event editor from Cakewalk which was the first sequencer ever I used long ago , apart from that I don't feel I miss much "new developments" yet, most VST's work fine . the arrange window gives me a clear overview ( Cubase layout , colours, buttons etc make it seem so complicated for my eyes....)

    But the logic win RAM limit and future hardware and OS developments will sooner or later make me switch to .....???
    If I would have loads of money maybe to mac,
    so probably to another PC daw :-)
    I hope the windows vista will be postponed !!

  10. #10

    Re: Best Piano Roll / Key editor

    (Any other win Logic 5 folks facing the same dilemma your thoughts / experiences would be much appreciated. Do you feel you're missing out on the newest audio developments? ... )
    I'm using Logic 5.5.1, and am currently considering my options as well.

    I'm planning to use Logic for as long as possible, as the program still fits my needs - but it would definitely be nice to have no 1 GB memory limit.
    However, I get along

    Best regards,
    Henrik Jensen

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •