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Topic: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

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  1. #1

    ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    Now that they have been out for a while, does anyone have any opinions on the ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders? How do they compare to Spectrasonics's Xpanders in terms of their sound quality, amount of content, usefulness and versatility, etc.? I've listened to the demos, and they sound great, but I'm curious as to how the full final products turned out. I'm leaning towards Skippy's Noizbox, but any comments on any of the Xpanders would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    I have the old sample CD's of skippyz noize box, and it was pretty good. The only thing that I noticed is that ilio won't let you use their stuff as a solo'ed track or was a little more restrictive, so if you are having to send split mixes for something such as a music library, that is a violation of their liscencing. Seeming How some of my work is in that case, I have avoided their stuff.
    www.energiestudios.com

  3. #3

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    You should be aware that's also true of all Spectrasonics instruments, Xpanders and sample libraries (including the core library of Stylus RMX). You can use them in Music Libraries with no problem...but only as long as it's a "mixed music" platform....NOT separated tracks. That's where we draw the line on our standard license agreement, because music libraries with remixable tracks and loops are often sold and used as "sound elements for creating music" and not simply "music".

    In fact, I don't know of many sample companies that allow split track delivery for music libraries in their licenses...certainly not any that sell loops or phase-based samples that I know of.

    Many sample developers do not allow ANY type of use in music libraries at all, but we have no problem with that application (and many of our customers do music libraries with our stuff)....as long as the tracks aren't separated in the music library.

    If someone uses our products in any music libraries with separated tracks, elements, loops, etc....that's a big problem, because it's really a "deriative product" at that point legally and our standard licensing system doesn't work anymore.

    Hope that info is useful.

    spectrum

  4. #4

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    I think there is a big misunderstanding by software companies and element splits when it comes to music libraries, and to limit the use of instruments can be pretty obnoxious, almost enough to make you want to use hardware and can software, well almost. Heck even you Eric sampled other instruments to make your products right. When it comes to offering their clients split mixes to make underscores, It is highly unlikely that a client, who is using music libraries will take a drum track, and use it for thier music composition. And the library prohibits such a use. Plus its not complete separation, like all of the rythm tracks combined and bass and synths etc. But oh well, just makes me think twice on using and spending money on products where I can't use them. Music library work is no different then anything else in my opinion, you are selling music composed.

    I understand most of the restrictions, like not using your sounds to make my own library, that is a given. Just my 2 cents from a composers standpoint.
    www.energiestudios.com

  5. #5

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossingsound
    I think there is a big misunderstanding by software companies and element splits when it comes to music libraries, and to limit the use of instruments can be pretty obnoxious, almost enough to make you want to use hardware and can software, well almost.
    Please understand that the range of our allowed use under the standard license is extremely broad....but we have to draw the line somewhere. We draw it when products created with our "elements" begin to be sold as "elements to create music" and not music itself.

    Heck even you Eric sampled other instruments to make your products right.
    Well...it's not exactly the same thing. I think you make not understand how it works.

    I created everything that we used from scratch myself (including the waveforms) or paid handsome fees and made deals with the owners to obtain the rights to do so. I didn't get to sample any instruments simply because I bought them as a normal musician.

    When it comes to offering their clients split mixes to make underscores, It is highly unlikely that a client, who is using music libraries will take a drum track, and use it for thier music composition.
    Actually, we've seen this exact kind of thing happen many, many times. Music Editors are very often creating entirely new musical compositions from existing separated tracks. When they have them completely separated, they are just like loop libraries that were created using our loop libraries.

    And the library prohibits such a use.
    Ah....we'll that's no problem then! :-)

    Plus its not complete separation, like all of the rythm tracks combined and bass and synths etc.
    Well that's a totally different thing! :-)

    No problem at all....we fully support that type of use. That's just an alternate sub-mixing delivery, so that's fine. It's purpose and format are still in the broadly defined "mixed music" category.

    But oh well, just makes me think twice on using and spending money on products where I can't use them. Music library work is no different then anything else in my opinion, you are selling music composed.
    Unfortunately, it's not quite that simple. There are lots of different types of music libraries and the delivery mechanisms are very different today than they used to be. There are many areas where music libraries and phrase/loop-based sample libraries and software intersect. So this is an important line that we need to make perfectly clear to our users.

    Just to reiterate our policy:

    Using Spectrasonics products on music libraries is absolutely, perfectly Ok and even encouraged.

    The only limitation is that it is to be sold as a library of music and presented with a "mixed music" format.

    The stems-style submix described above is fine. What wouldn't be ok is to present all the tracks completely separated.

    I understand most of the restrictions, like not using your sounds to make my own library, that is a given. Just my 2 cents from a composers standpoint.
    Right, but we also require that you don't deliver sounds to a client for THEM to make a form of a sample library either. :-)

    Hope that's helpful.

    spectrum

  6. #6

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    Right, I can understand your point of view from what you are classifying "music libraries". And the elements Are sub Mixed together, not just solo'ed entirely per say, and I am glad to hear that is ok. The end products I have either written for or used as an engineer were solely to be used as production music, not elements to make loops.

    I do know what you mean about a few libraries packaging loop elements, kinda like garage band does, that totally makes sence to me as far as not using spectrosonics loops for stuff like that. I don't consider these music libraries, these are more as you said, providing loop elements, like Final cut pro did, loops where you can form your own music. That is different, and I don't consider that music libraries. Production music libraries to me is where finished compositions are offered to be used in production, and maybe give some submixed elements to create underscores, such as Firstcoms liquid trax. As an engineer, I rarely used those anyway.
    www.energiestudios.com

  7. #7

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    to the original poster, sorry for the hijack dude. Yes, as the original cd was good, and I am sure ilio's offerings will gel on par with Spectrosonics releases.
    www.energiestudios.com

  8. #8
    Senior Member Patthoven's Avatar
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    Cool Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossingsound
    When it comes to offering their clients split mixes to make underscores, It is highly unlikely that a client, who is using music libraries will take a drum track, and use it for thier music composition.
    Huh? +-*/_*&%.......... your kidding right?

  9. #9

    Re: ILIO S.A.G.E. Xpanders

    no.

    I think you are maybe thinking of something different. I don't know any video editors who are using production music (needle drop) to make thier own music, do you? I have been in the commercial world as an engineer for quite some time, , worked with tons of ad agencies and post houses and some well known production studios, don't know any who are using production music libraries split sub mixes to make thier own music. That is why they buy and liscence production music, to use in post or commercials. The only time I have seen split mixes used is to create an underscore not offered by the available mixes for the tv, radio spot, or whatever.

    Most respected libraries outline how you can use their music, the end liscencing agreement, just as Software companies do.

    And if you can make your own music, most likely you have the software to do so anyway, I would never take a submix from firstcom to make my own music. Do you know what I mean when I say production music libraries? Heck most video editors I know have a hard time editing audio. Plus liscencing can get very expensive, would be cheaper to buy RMX yourself.
    www.energiestudios.com

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