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Topic: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

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  1. #1

    Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    I thought it would be fun to provide the solo trumpet track of my latest demo (called "Soaring Higher") for the Screaming Trumpet library (http://www.warpiv.com/1050394.html). The "screaming" solo occurs towards the end of the demo. What makes this demo interesting is the frequent use of release trigger samples.

    Full demo: http://www.warpiv.com/files/22045434.mp3
    Solo trumpet: http://www.warpiv.com/files/22045410.mp3

    Note, some of the releases used in this demo were the actual recorded articulations, while others were pieced together with other articulations by appending the release trigger sample to the end of the note (see if you can hear the difference).

    The Screaming Trumpet sample library has 6 release trigger types:

    1. Smooth short fall
    2. Smooth long fall
    3. Rough short fall
    4. Rough long fall
    5. Doit
    6. Up/down rip (inspired by Maynard Ferguson)

    Since this demo was produced in Reason, I had to manually add the release trigger samples to the end of the notes where I wanted them, but that was really easy to do. The Reason version has a velocity switched RT patch that contains all 6 of the release trigger samples. The Kontakt and Giga versions both have release trigger programs that work with long sustains.

    In this demo, I was actually able to add release trigger samples to swells, vibrato, shakes, etc. I was a bit surprised at how many different articulations the release trigger samples work well with!

    I would be happy to talk more about this topic. There were a lot of interesting things we learned during the programming and sample editing to get the release triggers to sound right. It took us a couple of trys before we got it right!

    Jeff Steinman
    President & CEO WarpIV Technologies
    www.warpiv.com

  2. #2

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    The thing about this demo is that the solo trumpet that starts about halfway through is really nice and shows off the library well.

    But . . . the first half, which is probably all that most people listened to before shutting it off, sounds like a Casio when you play those long note harmonies.

    I'd dump the first half completely and start with the trumpet solo section. The demo was too long anyway.

    - Mike Greene

  3. #3

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    The trumpet sounds good when it's playing the sampled phrase, but it sounds completely unrealistic when a note transition occurs. For me, this really distracts the beauty of any release samples existing there.

  4. #4

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Mike and Pando, thank you very much for your responses.

    First, I apologize for the long demo. The second link (solo trumpet) is probably a whole lot more interesting than the first link (full demo). The second link is just the trumpet solo at the end of the song without any other instruments. If there is interest, I could also post a dry version of the solo trumpet.

    It's strange to me that the long chords would sound like a Casio. The sustained chords are simply three high quality recorded tracks playing individually sampled real trumpets. Perhaps having three identical trumpets, yet with different samples, having the same basic tone leads to an unnatural sound. I did provide just a little bit of modulation to the lead part, but perhaps it was not enough to give it a more dynamic performance. Perhaps, I need to play with that some more...

    On the subject of attacks and note transitions, I actually wish the attacks were just a little stronger. I'm especially thinking about the loudest sustains and staccato articulations. I think that would have given a more dynamic sound in some cases. The swells actually do provide sharp attacks, but I've never tried using them in fast passages. I might try this.

    When I go back to the studio to record mutes and flugel horn with Wayne, I'm going to try to capture some more trumpet samples with harsher attacks, along with a few more additional Screaming Trumpet articulations.

    If anyone has additional suggestions on this topic, please let me know. Your feedback will help us when we go back to the studio.

    Meanwhile, we are currently focusing on our upcoming sax and flute libraries featuring Eric Marienthal. We really recorded some incredible samples!

    Thanks,
    Jeff Steinman

  5. #5

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Steinman
    On the subject of attacks and note transitions, I actually wish the attacks were just a little stronger. I'm especially thinking about the loudest sustains and staccato articulations. I think that would have given a more dynamic sound in some cases. The swells actually do provide sharp attacks, but I've never tried using them in fast passages. I might try this.
    With all due respect (and I do realize how hard work that is and how much effort and money goes into what you're doing), I think you missed my point. It's not the attacks, articulations, swells, dynamics, etc. that bother me. It's how one note transitions to the next, in legato. There are some excellent libraries tackling this problem already (like VSL etc), but please put some emphasis on legato transitions. For G3 or EXS things aren't really looking too good, but K2 has enough abilities now to really make a difference. Play around with SIPS just to experiment to see how much that helps - with the right settings you'll be surprised, and you just may discover that it's possible to simulate some articulations with scripting that you don't even have to record - the advantage to that is real-time playability. You can then get some programmers and apply the lessons learned to your product.


  6. #6

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Well it certainly sounds like Wayne - and thats a very good thing!

    But that demo sounds terrible and while many guys are going to be polite about it I'm not going to sugar coat it for you.

    All the rips, falls etc sound phenominal.
    The basic note to note playing sounds horrendous.

    If you haven't done so already you need to buy VSL's brass VI.
    That's the current standard and anything less will get you slammed.

    But if you take Wayne's samples and develop lyrical patches ala VSL you will have a blockbuster library on your hands.

    Westgate has done a great job with their new oboe and flute libraries and again, anything less than that level of realism will be a disappointment to users.

  7. #7

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pando
    With all due respect (and I do realize how hard work that is and how much effort and money goes into what you're doing), I think you missed my point. It's not the attacks, articulations, swells, dynamics, etc. that bother me. It's how one note transitions to the next, in legato. There are some excellent libraries tackling this problem already (like VSL etc), but please put some emphasis on legato transitions. For G3 or EXS things aren't really looking too good, but K2 has enough abilities now to really make a difference. Play around with SIPS just to experiment to see how much that helps - with the right settings you'll be surprised, and you just may discover that it's possible to simulate some articulations with scripting that you don't even have to record - the advantage to that is real-time playability. You can then get some programmers and apply the lessons learned to your product.

    You might laugh at this, but all of my demos were done in Reason! The Kontakt version of the library does come with SIPS legato and vibrato patches. I don't think we've demoed that anywhere, but I'm hoping to get some good demos soon. The library supports G3 and EXS24 too. I guess my working in Reason, which has the most primitive sampler (NNXT) of all the formats isn't cutting it...

  8. #8

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    I don't really care that it doesn't sound perfectly real. It is a great composition, and I usually am not a huge fan of this style. I think sometimes we all overlook the music each other writes and get caught up in the sequencing realism. Samples are a pain in the ~~~ and a bastardization of real players, but at least they allow for a preview of what the piece would sound like with real players. The goal for me isn't to get it perfect unless the purpose is to be used as a final product.
    http://hopkins.composerarts.com

  9. #9

    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Jesse, thanks for the kind words about the demo. While I know that the legato transitions performed in Reason are not perfect, I still thought the demo came out pretty good, and I'm actually a trumpet player!

    Still, I want to keep striving for perfection, so I am happy to receive constructive feedback from everybody! It really is much appreciated.

    Anyway, I hope that we get some K2 demos pretty soon. Since I don't work with Kontakt myself, I am anxious to hear the difference using the SIPS scripts. I haven't done anything with VSL, so that will be something new for me to look at down the road.

    One thing that might be of interest to people concerning our libraries is that we are releasing them with the wav files exposed. This means that people can modify and/or create their own sampler patches and share them with others who have purchesed the library. I would be more than happy to post patches created by others on my website for people to freely download. This way, we can all take advantage of each other's expertise on the latest technologies.

    In case you were wondering... Yes, I am also a software guy (ok, geek) who is a strong believer in the open source philosphy. My company, WarpIV Technologies, Inc. produces some really great high performance computing software that is basically free and open source to our users. I believe in giving our customers what they want. The trick is to do this without going out of business!

    Thanks again,
    Jeff Steinman

  10. #10
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    Re: Screaming Trumpet Demo - Use of Release Triggers

    Quote Originally Posted by ed hamilton
    All the rips, falls etc sound phenominal.
    The basic note to note playing sounds horrendous.
    I agree completely with Ed here. The fast moving melodic lines some very "keyboardish" to me. You really need to work with a good sequencer to make this sound anywhere close to Wayne.

    Jeff

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