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Topic: GPO Sample Files

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  1. #1
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
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    GPO Sample Files

    Hidy-Ho, Folks -
    Well, after a week, my question about extending instrument ranges in GPO gives me impression that the answer is "Don't Know".

    So I will be a little more specific about my capabilities. I have the upgraded VSampler from Sonar 3 (originally). It will import many sound file formats, including .nki. But I can't find the supporting sample (.wav?) files for the rather small, .nki instrument files. I figure that if I can import, say, the Gagli Solo Violin files, I can extend the range higher than the D7 limit (in GPO) with VSampler, and, if nothing else, use the resultant .vs3 file (with VSampler) for my Gagli Solo Violin (and GPO for everything else) in pieces that require the extended range.

    I have not been able to locate the GPO sample files - just the small (ca. 6Kb) .nki files. Where are the sample files?

    I have seen mention on the Forum that what I want to do may not be possible because of the way GPO is assembled (or encrypted or whatever). Is this true? Am I wasting my time by wanting to extend a GPO instrument's range?

    Thanx for any insights.
    Frank

  2. #2

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    The .wav files are embedded in enchrypted .nks archives. I doubt VSampler can open those.

  3. #3

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    Hi!

    I noticed your question the first time you posted but hoped more knowledgeable people would answer. Now I give it a try but please remember that I have no idea of what I am speaking about!

    When working on some (to be honest: all) pieces with GPO, I ran into problems with the instruments range. Actually I keep having this problem with every sample library I use. However the only solutions to this problem was buying Kontakt 1.5 and edit all the insturment files by hand.

    To make a long story short: Your best bet would be to edit the files in Kontakt 2. However that might break some of the internal workings and I do not know if they still would work properly in the GPO-Kompakt player.

    Maybe Tom Hopkins can help you further.
    Greetings from Vienna!
    Peter
    My website: Above the staff.net

  4. #4

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    Those range limitations are generally there for a good reason

  5. #5

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    .nki's saved in Kontakt 2 can not be loaded in Kontakt Player 1.

  6. #6

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    at just 200 bucks,,,, buy the Stardivari solo violin, your projects will sound so much better and you will have the detail and range you expect out of a solo violin.

    .02

    Dan

  7. #7

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    Quote Originally Posted by johnmarkpainter
    Those range limitations are generally there for a good reason
    An interesting thought! Now please explain to me why someone would limit the range of his sampled instrument to a range way below what is written in common orchestration textbooks? Please tell me the good reason, I am dieing to know!
    Greetings from Vienna!
    Peter
    My website: Above the staff.net

  8. #8

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    The 'good reason' could mean one of two things:
    - the range was 'thought' to be realistic at the time of recording/programming (and for most GPO instruments this does hold true +/- the usual allowance for exceptional players who can push an instrument beyond its usual limits)
    - technical, mistakes or other difficulties meant the range had to be restricted

    You have to use Kontakt 1.5 to edit GPO files, then they can be reloaded into the player. This from Tom Hopkins:

    2.GPO instruments were designed and programmed in Kontakt 1.5. The GPO player is based on the engine for Kontakt 1.5. Instruments can be loaded into Kontakt 1.5, edited, saved, and re-loaded into the GPO player. GPO instruments can also be loaded into Kontakt 2.0 but they cannot be edited and saved for use in the GPO player. The GPO player, being based on Kontakt 1.5 obviously cannot read the file structure of anything saved in the newer 2.0 format.

    Here is full post:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=36092

  9. #9

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    "An interesting thought! Now please explain to me why someone would limit the range of his sampled instrument to a range way below what is written in common orchestration textbooks? Please tell me the good reason, I am dieing to know!"


    Pete,

    It's been a while since I've seen you around here. How's it been going?

    I believe that GPO was designed with the "Classical" orchestra in mind. A person can do a beautiful mockup of Beethoven's 5th Symphony, but will run into problems when tackling Richard Strauss's Don Juan. It all has to do with the time periods. The closer we get to the current era, the more stretched and strained the ranges of the orchestra get.

    After re-visiting the owner's manual, I don't really see any instruments that are out of their usually performed ranges. What instruments are you coming up short with? Me personally, the only thing I've ever wanted that wasn't there was string harmonics. I've figured out ways to get the same sound though. Neccesity is the mother of invention.

    However, most people feel that for the price, GPO is quite a purchase. I use GPO exclusively because it seems, to me, to be the best sounding library out there.

    I don't believe that Mr. Garritan would "limit" his library without good intention. The ranges that are in GPO are what is generally performed. I think what Mr. Painter meant was that the limitiations are there as a sort of a guideline for amatuer or inexperienced composers and arrangers. They act as a cut off point for wild arrangements. Not every orchestral trumpet player can rip off a double C and the ranges limitations keep an unexperienced composer from making a mistake. At its heart, GPO is an EDUCATIONAL tool, as it was originally developed for use in schools and colleges.

    I also suspect that the lack of extended ranges has to do with the availabilty of able performers, specialized instruments or library size restrictions. Hopefully, you get the ranges that you need with the upcoming GPO Advanced. If not, I suggest checking out other libraries to supplement your compositional tools.

    Jonny
    For more information, check out www.jonathoncox.com/intro.html

    "The trouble with music appreciation in general is that people are taught to have too much respect for music they should be taught to love it instead." - Igor Stravinsky

  10. #10

    Re: GPO Sample Files

    Quote Originally Posted by 4209fr
    So I will be a little more specific about my capabilities. I have the upgraded VSampler from Sonar 3 (originally). It will import many sound file formats, including .nki. But I can't find the supporting sample (.wav?) files for the rather small, .nki instrument files.
    You can only edit the GPO files in the full version of Kontakt -not VSampler (or any other sampler, for that matter.) The Kontakt Player samples are encrypted in a monolithic file structure and are not directly available to the user. Any editing done in Kontakt would be at the zone level and above, not at the sample level. This is the way the Kontakt Player is designed by NI. We follow their rules when we license their design.
    I figure that if I can import, say, the Gagli Solo Violin files, I can extend the range higher than the D7 limit (in GPO) with VSampler, and, if nothing else, use the resultant .vs3 file (with VSampler) for my Gagli Solo Violin (and GPO for everything else) in pieces that require the extended range.
    If you use the full version of Kontakt you could do just that, although I suspect the results might be less than satisfactory. The solo violins are recorded with real vibrato and stretching the top note would extend the pitch *and* speed up the vibrato rate - not to mention the formant shift that will accompany the change of playback rate. Keep in mind that once edited in Kontakt 2 (the full Kontakt 1.5 is no longer available) you will need to use Kontakt 2 to load the edited instruments - the Player will not recognize them since it uses the K 1.5 engine. Once the library is ported over to the new K2 player this limitation should no longer exist, since the full and player versions will match.

    Tom

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